Irelands Slave Women

[DickTurpin1789]

Tragic stuff. F*cking evil.
It's no wonder Paisley and his equally loathsome ilk feared "Rome Rule."

We must not forget that there are thousands of women suffering today because the state does not allow fast-tracked divorces, prohibits abortion while it allows the nonsensical continuation of Catholic indoctrination in our schools.

Ludicrously the state broadcaster shows its sectarian bias by broadcasting the Angelus as if Catholic Ireland still existed.

Due to the after effects of our still considerably sexually repressed culture, alcoholism is rampant,teenage kids continue to get pregnant due to a lack of sex education, many college kids still arrive on campus completely ignorant of contraception and STD's and young men and women who were never encouraged to talk frankly about sex or shown appropiate guidance on how to form loving relationships find themselves incapable of dealing with adulthood,

Many young people find themselves completely lost in the adult world reduced to fumbling sticky one night stands or suicide and depression when they are unable to really communicate with the opposite sex out of Catholic guilt and mortification.

This is also fuelling the gross sexual abuse of trafficked young women who are kidnapped in Eastern Europe and further afield and brought to this country for the sexual gratification of men of all ages who can't get sex any other way.

Catholicism has taught generations of people that sex is dirty and degrading and a mechanical process linked with shame and fear.

The institutions of the Catholic Church are gone but its malign influence lives on in our confused and twisted culture of alcoholism, depression and sexual immaturity and misogyny.

[Aindriu]

Good post Dick

[iartaoiseach]

I completely agree! The KNEW what was going on and did nothing because it suited them to. May all those who were complicit in these abuses rot in hell!

I have repeatedly said that the point is being missed here re blame. the Church was the moral guardian of this country for generations this includes the governments and the citizens. a grand portion of the citizens were indoctrinated a la the Hitler Youth from a very young age not to question the clergy. these people had the line to the supposed almighty via the pope which superseded the authority of any government or earthly lawmaker. why do people find it so hard to grasp this fact. the people of this country lived in fear of the clergy as far as I can see with a few very brave exceptions who were ostracised for speaking out. the rest fulfilled the description of 'the faithful' and followed blindly. while their silence was a terrible wrong I would hazard that many of them actually thought that they were doing the right thing by these unfortunate 'sinners' pathetic as it sounds.
Imo the primary blame lies with the catholic church in this matter, with the government and people guilty of doing what anyone who follows a creed without question does, they let others decide what their conscience should be. they should also shoulder responsibility for that cowardice but in the context of that benighted time it is understandable to some extent.
this whole disgraceful episode and other similar ones are a dark example of why church(of any type) and state should be absolutely separate and that there is no such thing as an infallible moral guardian.

[iartaoiseach]

Tragic stuff. F*cking evil.
It's no wonder Paisley and his equally loathsome ilk feared "Rome Rule."

We must not forget that there are thousands of women suffering today because the state does not allow fast-tracked divorces, prohibits abortion while it allows the nonsensical continuation of Catholic indoctrination in our schools.

Ludicrously the state broadcaster shows its sectarian bias by broadcasting the Angelus as if Catholic Ireland still existed.

Due to the after effects of our still considerably sexually repressed culture, alcoholism is rampant,teenage kids continue to get pregnant due to a lack of sex education, many college kids still arrive on campus completely ignorant of contraception and STD's and young men and women who were never encouraged to talk frankly about sex or shown appropiate guidance on how to form loving relationships find themselves incapable of dealing with adulthood,

Many young people find themselves completely lost in the adult world reduced to fumbling sticky one night stands or suicide and depression when they are unable to really communicate with the opposite sex out of Catholic guilt and mortification.

This is also fuelling the gross sexual abuse of trafficked young women who are kidnapped in Eastern Europe and further afield and brought to this country for the sexual gratification of men of all ages who can't get sex any other way.

Catholicism has taught generations of people that sex is dirty and degrading and a mechanical process linked with shame and fear.

The institutions of the Catholic Church are gone but its malign influence lives on in our confused and twisted culture of alcoholism, depression and sexual immaturity and misogyny.

Good post there. fully agree with you. pyschotic repression. the result of a warped moral code.

[imokyrok]

I have repeatedly said that the point is being missed here re blame. the Church was the moral guardian of this country for generations this includes the governments and the citizens. a grand portion of the citizens were indoctrinated a la the Hitler Youth from a very young age not to question the clergy. these people had the line to the supposed almighty via the pope which superseded the authority of any government or earthly lawmaker. why do people find it so hard to grasp this fact. the people of this country lived in fear of the clergy as far as I can see with a few very brave exceptions who were ostracised for speaking out. the rest fulfilled the description of 'the faithful' and followed blindly. while their silence was a terrible wrong I would hazard that many of them actually thought that they were doing the right thing by these unfortunate 'sinners' pathetic as it sounds.
Imo the primary blame lies with the catholic church in this matter, with the government and people guilty of doing what anyone who follows a creed without question does, they let others decide what their conscience should be. they should also shoulder responsibility for that cowardice but in the context of that benighted time it is understandable to some extent.
this whole disgraceful episode and other similar ones are a dark example of why church(of any type) and state should be absolutely separate and that there is no such thing as an infallible moral guardian.

Ordinary members of the CC have surged ahead of the clergy in respect of listening to their individual conscience. It's not that long ago that a catholic didn't permit themselves to have an individual conscience or a personal voice of reason and that is one of the reasons why even those in a position of some authority were incapable of looking at was happening objectively. To dare to question catholic teachings, doctrine and attitudes was unthinkable. Now people dismiss the more foolish of church teachings like the prohibition on contraception and homosexuality but such independent thought on matters both practical and moral was a long time coming.

I find it encouraging too when I see on this forums threads and elsewhere the disgust and suspicion people feel for those organisations and individuals associated with fundamentalist Catholicism as opposed to moderate Catholicism. It would seems the veil of mindless obedience is gone for good.

[slx]

Utterly disgusting, heartless, sadistic uncaring behaviour that was absolutely lacking in any basic humanity, never mind christianity. Not to mention that it was illegal and unconstitutional too!

I will be printing out and posting the form on Count Me Out - Take a stand for church/state separation later on today. I really don't want any connection with an organisation that stood over this kind of stuff.

I'd consider myself an atheist, but having been brought up through the typical Irish educational system ended up baptised and confirmed before I knew what was going on.

So, I think it's time to cut all ties.

[The OD]

Some women as we know never got out but worked all their lives in the laundries. Compensation is due to those still alive. All the assets of the orders should be sequestered until their debts are paid.

What and then have the Religious spill the beans on the lay people who were involved at every level of abuse?

I doubt it. The state will continue to protect its 'own', those not being ordinary citizens however.

[reknaw]

I'd consider myself an atheist, but having been brought up through the typical Irish educational system ended up baptised and confirmed before I knew what was going on.

So, I think it's time to cut all ties.

I agree. As Professor Richard Dawkins continually points out, religions have too many inbuilt advantages, and being able to brainwash children (almost literally in the case of baptism) is one of them. It is a shame that a country, in whose constitution there is a clear separation of church and state, has never put this into practice by creating a system of state education, leaving people with the option of sending children to religious schools, but only if they want to.

The State must acknowledge its responsibility for the savage treatment meted out to the Magdalene women. It had a duty of oversight and failed miserably in it. They must be compensated, even if it means selling off every last item of church-owned property.

[SilverLining]

The State's files and documents may already have been destroyed, just as some of the RCC institutions did to cover up the crimes. This cannot be let die down as justice must happen, not just for the survivors and their familes but also for Ireland as a society. The denial of this is nearly as bad as the crime itself.

My parents generation referred to women who were put into such institutions as "wanting" (want n. mental lack < ON vant, lacking. 'There’s a want in that family'. - A Hiberno-English Archive). These women and children were seen by the society of the day as worthless and it didn't matter what happen to them. The truth is that they were used as slaves in work camps to generate income for the RCC institutions into which they were committed.

This is also being covered on okeeffe-criticised-referring-magdalen-women-employees.

[Fluter]

The story the OP told about the nuns refusing to put the dying man in touch with his mother is horrific but in keeping with the kind of inhumanity associated with the Catholic Church in this country. The result is to make the Church and their legacy here despised by many and they have only themselves to blame for that.