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  1. #161
    CptSternn CptSternn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenian john View Post
    I read the past post of northside and it seems he is from limerick because he has mainly post around Limerick issues. Makes no difference to me anyway just would like to see a official line on the matter because their silence on the matter only shows how weak they are to me
    The original organiser I mentioned in my post that we went to the cuige to have removed was from Limerick. Since that person seems to know a bit about Clare that only someone who was there would know, I'm willing to bet it's the same man mentioned in my previous post.

    I'm wondering if he will stand up now and go ahead and tell us if it's the same man. If he doesn't, I'll be happy to name him here and we will see if it's him. Is that you M? Speak up now, I mean, if you want to be in the conversation then don't be a coward. You throw out some rubbish about me then disappear and act like you didn't, thats not very nice, you should stand over your posts here. I would hate to have to call you out in front of all the people reading this and tell them your real name. I'm sure some of the journalists here would love to write about you sure. You are much more interesting than me anyway, at least I'm pretty sure thats what the media will say.
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  2. #162
    fenian john fenian john is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptSternn View Post
    I've been out of the party for like a year now. Until now I have said nothing. To be brtually honest, I could care less what the party does these days.

    The issue I have now and why I choose to speak on this matter is this -

    SF kicked Cathy out of the party. Again, I'm not bothered by that as I am no longer involved in the party, HOWEVER, Cathy and her husband are both good friends of mine. Our familes, like many other in the area are good friends and we have a friendship outside of the party.

    SF have launched an official attack on her and her family. It's disgusting. I am not attacking anyone, but SF want her to step down from her elected seat and hand over the seat to some guy who only got 30 votes in a GE a few years ago. She won that seat because she is brilliant and does a lot with the local community. She deserves that seat and isn't giving it up.

    SF are busing in lads from Cork and having posters/flyers done up to protest at every town council meeting calling her a 'traitor' (that was a quote from a Mr. Mike McKee who claims the seat now should be his) and has told her they will continue doing such until she gives them the seat. They are also posting nasty things on her Facebook page wall, sending her similar emails, and she is even getting nasty phone calls. I spoke with her yesterday. She is taking the high road on this and ignoring it, taking it all in stride. I however am not as understanding.

    So no, I am not attacking anyone. I am defending a friend. If they wanna bus in people from around the country to try and force her out, I have already contacting lots of local lads, friends and family who know her and will be coming to meet them head on. Can't wait until the next council meeting. #ComeAtMeBro in full effect.

    If anyone wants to know what Clare SF is doing now they can show up at the next Shannon Town Council meeting and see how they are launching a smear campaign against one of their own who wouldn't sell out her ideals and refused to allow people she supported be railroaded for standing up for their local community. She stood by the local members and valued her friends and comrades over towing the party line, and now they want to crucify her for it in efforts to make anyone else in the party who might do the same think twice.

    I don't care about the party or it's politics any more, but when they launch personal attacks on friends and family members in my community, I take issue with that.

    A protest outside the council calling her a traitor... ah come on now that is hardly gonna happen. Who is the person they want to take her seat?
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  3. #163
    fenian john fenian john is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by hairless View Post
    Hi all, Andrew Hamilton here - I'm the journalist who broke this story for the Clare People. Sorry stories aren't available online atm but I have posted it below... Cheers


    Thanks for the post. I have to say it is good to see a journalist in a local newspaper actually looking into a story and looking for facts.



    Andrew Hamilton
    CLARE’S only elected Sinn Fein representative, Shannon-based coun- cillor Cathy McCafferty, has been suspended from the party while her husband, prominent party member and former leading light of the local Sinn Fein organisation, Eugene Mc- Cafferty, has been expelled from the party.
    The action was taken by the Sinn Fein top brass at two separate meet- ing held in late December. Both Councillor McCafferty and Mr Mc- Cafferty have a number of weeks to appeal the decisions, but should Cllr McCafferty’s suspension become permanent she will be asked by the organisation to give up her seat on Shannon Town Council to allow an- other party member to be co-opted.
    A spokesperson from the Sinn Fein national organisation in Dublin confirmed that one person had been expelled from the party in Clare but would not confirm the identity of the person.
    “We don’t have any official public spokesperson in Clare at the mo- ment. We are restructuring the party locally at the moment and will have someone in place in the near future,” said the party spokesperson.
    “Regarding the expulsions from the party - this matter is being handled
    internally by the party and we won’t be making any comment on it what- so-ever.”
    Despite this a number of sources within Sinn Fein, both from Clare and within the Munster region, con- firmed to The Clare People that Mr Eugene McCafferty had been ex- pelled and that Cllr McCafferty had been suspended.
    The Clare People contacted Mr McCafferty in relation to this matter but he declined to confirm or deny his expulsion from the party only saying that he “was not and had never been” a Sinn Fein organiser in Clare.
    The Clare People also contacted Cllr McCafferty in relation to her suspension from the party but no re- sponse was forthcoming at the time of going to press.
    The Clare People also contacted the Clare Sinn Fein organisation in relation to this story but no official comment was forthcoming at the time of going to press.
    Sinn Fein did not run a candidate in Clare in last year’s General Election, despite the party securing its posi- tion as the fourth most popular party in the country in the national poll.
    The Clare wing of the party has been hit with a number of high pro- file defections in recent years with a number of former election candi- dates walking away from the local organisation.
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  4. #164
    williewatch williewatch is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenian john View Post
    A protest outside the council calling her a traitor... ah come on now that is hardly gonna happen. Who is the person they want to take her seat?
    Maybe I'm missing something in the thread.

    BUT, Why will SF and those expelled & suspended not say why it happened?

    All we are getting here is third party, friends of the aggrieved party type reports.

    Its high time both groups made public statements giving their account of the story & put an end to this "he said, she said" type guff.

    At this stage the whole thing is like something from a school yard the Monday morning after a Saturday night boozed up, tearful girl hair pulling fight.

    So come on all. No more coy "No Comment" from SF or the Former / Suspended Shannon members. Lets have the full story.
    Last edited by williewatch; 16th January 2012 at 10:53 AM.
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  5. #165
    fenian john fenian john is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by williewatch View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something in the thread.

    BUT, Why will SF AND expelled & suspended not say why it happened?

    All we are getting here is third party, friends of the aggrieved party type reports.

    Its high time both groups made public statements giving their account of the story & put an end to this "he said, she said type" guff.
    Thats all I wanted from the start an official statement on what went on and I would expect a counter statement by the effected camp but I would rather see it in the local news papers and not on here.
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  6. #166
    fenian john fenian john is offline

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    As a SF supporter in the past and probably in the future I would like to see Cllr McCafferty make a proper statement on the goings on as she is elected and the ball is in her court. Silence on the issue makes a person look guilty of something.I would like to pick up the clarepeople in the morning and see she has given her story.
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  7. #167
    williewatch williewatch is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenian john View Post
    I would like to see Cllr McCafferty make a proper statement on the goings on .
    Agree.

    I know if I felt hard done by I'd be onto the media trying to get my side of the story out there.

    If SF have treated her unjustly then she should tell the world.
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  8. #168
    CptSternn CptSternn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrygold View Post
    I was reluctant to comment on this thread given the fact that those suspended from the party have a right to appeal but I felt compelled because of some of the nonsense that has been written, particularly by one former member.

    What cptsternn has said has many inaccuracies and he has been very one-sided. Limerick Sinn Fein was reorganised in the late 1990s so there are many people in it longer than 4 years. It never was 25 euro to join Sinn Fein and rarely are meetings held any closer than monthly not fortnightly as stated here. Also, the level of activity is a matter for the individual-there is no demand that you attend meetings or engage in any activity. And there have never been 70 members on Clare CC. A CC consists of delegates from the local cumann, usually 2 per cumainn, so to have 70 members in a CC that would mean over 30 local cumman’s.

    Cptsternn was not expelled ‘weeks ago’ but in 2010. And I believe I'm right to say that the same organiser he is giving out about intervened to keep him in Sinn Fein at an earlier instance.
    As in any part of Sinn Fein a regional or national organiser only becomes involved in local structures if there are issues that cannot be sorted locally. The “defections” from the party are grossly overstated.
    Cllr. McKee was mentioned- he parted company with SF over a decade ago, and as was said, Anna Prior moved to Galway where she in very active with the party. Seán left but is still in touch with SF and has worked on issues such as Palestine with the local organisation.
    I know there are personal relationships and local loyalties involved in this but it would be better if people would keep to the facts and not allow there own personal grievances get in the way.
    Since your posts seem to involve SF and Kerry and yer handle is Kerrygold, I'm betting I know who you are as well.

    But again, lets lay out the facts,

    Trying to derail the topic by debating what the membership fee is now is not helping your argument.

    The fee since I was in changed all the time. You of all people know this, and you of all people can if you want end the debate on this.

    What is the fee now? Who do you pay it to? As former Chairperson of the Munster Cuige I know you have this information don't you?

    No one really cares about the fee, thats not the story. You can continue to debate it if you want, but sure, you already know this.

    What is important is a few things -

    You say there is a way to appeal an expulsion, but sure, you know yourself Ken said he wouldn't even entertain the idea. We took it above your head when you did nothing and the Ard Comhailre said they too wouldn't look into it. So there is a process, but the party intentionally ignored it, and Cathy wrote an official statement about this saying it was unconstitutional and stood up for myself and for the other processes which were being abused and ye kicked her out.

    We came to you, a few times, and you ignored the issue. I have copies of all the emails, I'll be happy to post them here and let the world read them and they can make up their own minds on the issue. They include emails where it is said that Sean was kicked out for his posts on p.ie, thats a quote from the former Cuige chair, so trying to spin it now again is ye trying to change the facts of what happened.

    You know what, this letter needs to be seen for reference. To counter your argument that there are 'appeal' processes in place. You have a copy of this email, I as sent it to you. I could post your response here as well, but I'll save that for now and give you the chance to be honest about how things actually happened.

    Here is the email from Ken, and the one below it my response. See, ye got all creative when removing me from the party. You stood down the structures and said we all had to fill out new membership forms, then refused to give me one and claimed therefore I wasn't a member and had no recourse to an appeal. Again, the lot of ye playing fast and loose with the rules.

    My 'official' notice of being kicked out - no tribunal, no letter, just this email. Check out my response below...

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Ken O'Connell [mailto:***@sinnfein.ie]
    > Sent: 01 February 2011 05:53 PM
    > To: Sternn
    > Subject: Re Membership forms
    >
    > A Chara,
    > In relation to your application for membership of Sinn Fein which was passed
    > to me by Ard Offig . I wish to inform you that you will not be Joining the
    > party at this time, It was made very clear by the panel at the first meeting
    > of the party in clare post root and branch review that people must sign up
    > to and keep the code of conduct , that the Party would not allow past
    > situations to continue, and as you were well aware of these codes since the
    > time you breeched them by being involved in that TV show that had no other
    > purpose but to attack this party and our struggle.Yet you continued to
    > engage on open forums, discussions which were private about this party with
    > another member and numerous others on that forum.
    > I am informing you now that the other member has had his membership revoked
    > and I wish to inform you that your membership will not be reinstated.
    >
    > Is Mise
    > Ken O Connell
    > Southern Co-Ordinator and Munster Cuige Chair
    >






    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Sternn
    > Sent: 02 February 2011 09:14 AM
    > To: 'Ken O'Connell'
    > Cc: Cathy McCafferty; Eugene McCafferty
    > Brian Keane; Paul O' Connor
    >
    > Subject: RE: Membership forms
    >
    > A Chara,
    >
    > Per your email regarding my membership forms query, you cannot deny me the
    > ability to 'join' the party as I am already a member and have been for the
    > past eight years. As former secretary of the Clare Comhairle Ceanntair I
    > still have the books and paperwork to prove this. When you came to Co.
    > Clare to 'stand down' our structures recently you said, and I quote, 'this
    > does not affect your membership, you are all still members'. This is a
    > point you repeated multiple times. Are you now changing what you told all
    > of the members in Co. Clare?
    >
    > I recently attended the meeting in Shannon with yourself and Paul O'Connor.
    > During this meeting I asked questions about the upcoming election and
    > budget. Are you now telling me that I was already out of the party prior to
    > this meeting? Why am I only being notified now? I spoke with you during
    > this meeting, I asked about getting a new membership form, something you
    > brought up - you did not say one word to me then and told me that you were
    > out of forms. Did you lie to me as to avoid a face to face discussion?
    > According to your email you think I have been out of the party for months,
    > and yet you never informed me nor did you say anything when you had the
    > opportunity. In fact you acted like nothing was wrong and apologised for
    > not having any more forms. Only now via an email you say I am not in the
    > party and I won't be getting a form - three weeks after you met me in person
    > and months after you claimed to have removed me from the party. That means
    > we had multiple meetings and I attended multiple events, which you saw me,
    > and you never said one word until now. I am trying to understand this.
    >
    > In regards to the TV interview I would like to again point out a few things.
    > First, this was in 2006. Our meeting about it was in 2008. Are you
    > seriously suggesting that you are taking action now in regards to something
    > that happened about five years ago? I would also like to point out that you
    > had no evidence that was myself then, nor do you now. The person was not
    > named and his appearance was hidden, so unless you had inside knowledge
    > there is no way to say who that person was. I will now say it was me, but
    > the only reason you thought you knew is because Finbarr MacGabhann told you,
    > and the only reason he knew was I asked permission at the Comhairle
    > Ceanntair level before doing the interview and he was at the meeting. I was
    > granted permission by Eugene McCafferty who was the Chairperson for Co.
    > Clare at the time. The bigger issue here is - are you saying party members
    > cannot engage in legal protests or other legal forms of free speech without
    > being removed as party members? How does this fit into the democratic
    > process? Is this not stifling free speech within the party? Your two
    > person tribunal consisted of yourself and Finbarr MacGabhann both
    > representing the 'ODU' a structure that didn't exist in 2006, which begs the
    > question how can you review an incident that happened before you were even
    > given any authority? Also, how does this ODU tribunal process fit within
    > the Cuige structure and within the party Constitution and democratic
    > process? How is two people with no oversight a democratic process?
    >
    > While on the subject of the ODU 'review', you made no mention of this during
    > the review process. I sat down with yourself and the other two members of
    > the review panel. You never once brought this up. I submitted a six page
    > statement of the state of affairs here in the County, which you accepted.
    > Again, this does raise the question of was I a member, as if I wasn't a
    > member why were you sitting down with me and accepting such documentation?
    > Why is it to this day I am still getting posts from head office? I just got
    > the Clár recently, which makes me wonder does Head Office know what you are
    > up to as they obviously think I am still secretary down here, even if you do
    > not.
    >
    > Then there is the issue of the online forums. Which forums are you
    > referring to exactly? Do you even know, or are you again parroting what
    > Finbarr MacGabhann is telling you? I ask because unless you had specific
    > information it's a pretty slim chance you would see me posting on any
    > forums, as I only read a few and respond on even fewer. If you are
    > referring to the posts on Politics.ie, then I am at a loss here. Finbarr
    > and the candidate he is trying to force upon Co. Clare, Sean Hayes, were the
    > ones engaged in slandering the party. By that I mean they posted that Cathy
    > and Eugene McCafferty were criminals, engaged in illegal activity. They
    > also posted detailed party information about Clare, specifically that the
    > structures had been stood down. They went on to say everyone in Co. Clare
    > 'did not like' Cathy. I merely responded and posted that they needed to
    > keep that offline and that they were slandering the party. I took up for
    > the party, yet you have sided with the very ones who brought our only
    > elected representatives background into ill repute. How exactly is that me
    > 'attacking the party'? It was your emissaries which attacked the party
    > representatives. I can prove this, as MY posts are still there. Strangely
    > enough most all of the other posts regarding this issue have been removed, I
    > can only assume at your behest as to hide the real evidence which points
    > directly back at your friends Sean Hayes and Finbarr MacGabhann.
    >
    > Here is a link to the posts, some of which are still there, most of which
    > has been deleted. My posts are still visible, as I am not trying to hide
    > anything.
    >
    > Clare General Election - Page 3
    >
    > The question again arises, are party members not allowed to engage in open
    > discussions in today's online world when it comes to politics or local
    > affairs? I ask you read what I posted there, as obviously you have yet to
    > since you accused me of slandering the party, and tell me what in that forum
    > is so bad that it warrants party expulsion. This concept smacks of
    > censorship and a total lack of free speech.
    >
    > Finally, under the Constitution I am entitled to a formal letter stating why
    > I am being removed from the party. Normally this is done by the Comhairle
    > Ceanntair, but since there is none in place I am guessing this falls to the
    > Cuige. That means not an email telling me I am not a member and have no
    > recourse to challenge this, but a proper letter. After eight years of
    > membership in the party and another eight as former Chairperson of Noraid,
    > one would think that is the least I am due. Then there is the issue of
    > appeal. Again, the Constitutional structures state I can appeal to the
    > Cuige. So far everything you have done here in Co. Clare has apparently
    > been made up as you go along. You have yet to follow any protocol regarding
    > our own Constitution and membership rule book. In fact, you have said and
    > done things which directly contradict and go against many of our stated
    > rules, which leads me to believe you are acting outside of your own
    > authority in many matters here. I am not asking for special treatment, I am
    > asking that the rules and protocols in place be followed instead of this
    > cowboy attitude you have currently adopted with our structures and members
    > here in Co. Clare. Again, is this the 'democratic' process which exists
    > today in Sinn Fein or is this something you have concocted outside of the
    > normal structures?
    >
    > You have repeatedly tried to censor myself and the other members of Clare.
    > We have been told time and time again we no longer have the right to speak
    > our minds, post online, attend events, or engage in any number of legal
    > behaviours without your personal blessing. Is this what the party has now
    > become, or is this something you have created without any oversight? If
    > this is truly the parties actions and not just your own here, it is a shame,
    > as it appears our party has now become the very thing which we fight
    > against. Wasn't the reason the party was created to give those without any
    > power the ability to openly voice their opinion in a democratic process?
    > Your actions over the past two years here in Co. Clare go against this very
    > principle.
    >
    > I have CC'd other members who have been mentioned in some part during this
    > ordeal so they too may know the whole story. Democracy dies behind closed
    > doors, and up to now, it has been one closed door meeting with yourself
    > after another.
    >
    > Is Mise,
    > Sternn
    >
    >


    Again I don't give two shytes what goes on in the party these days. Like you said, I've been out since 2010 and haven't said boo. But when ye come here and start talking shyte, trying to rewrite history and make my friends and family in Clare look bad and try to portray us as the bad guys, I take issue with that. When you start organising protests against people in our local community, expect a response.

    Also it should be said SF are now backing McKee in his quest for the seat, so your assertion that he left the party a decade ago goes against the current campaign you are waging to put him in Cathy's seat.
    Last edited by CptSternn; 17th January 2012 at 03:20 PM.
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  9. #169
    williewatch williewatch is offline
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    @CptSternn

    TBH, I am just interested in the issue of the suspension / expulsion & I am not very interested in your personal history. Sorry, but lets focus

    But back to the main issue as in the thread title "Clare SF suspend their only councillor"

    Since you are obviously very close to the suspended Councillor can you get her to make a public statement.

    Otherwise this story will be forgotten as just another "storm in a tea cup" hand bagging incident.
    Last edited by williewatch; 16th January 2012 at 11:31 AM.
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  10. #170
    CptSternn CptSternn is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by williewatch View Post
    Agree.

    I know if I felt hard done by I'd be onto the media trying to get my side of the story out there.

    If SF have treated her unjustly then she should tell the world.

    As I said, her responsibility is to the local community. She is staying out of the fray and is not trying to cause any issues. I'm sure when she feels it is appropriate and will not effect her cosntitutants she will make a statement.

    I do think you are focusing on the wrong side here though. She didn't leave the party by choice, therefore the onus falls on the party to explain their actions. They gave her the boot, in an official letter handed to her by party officials. SF should be the ones you are looking for a statement from as they are the ones who set off this chain of events. Let them explain why they didn't want her in the party any more.

    I myself look forward to hearing the explanation as the letter was strangely void of any real content other than the fact she was out.

    There are already two high ranking party members who were involved in the decision here, and posting as we have seen. That means all the top brass are here lurking and reading this. If you want them to make a statement ask them directly here, as you will never in your life have a better chance to get the ear of the top SF people like you have right now.
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