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  1. #11
    Hooch Hooch is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    Just to reiterate the point that you'd need to see the wording of the text, but having said that I was amazed at what I read in the Ombudsmans report about this specific case involving Crumlin hospital. What was alarming was that the parents were unaware that there was an investigation into what the hospital believed was a non-accidental injury....and after weeks of investigating this matter, it transpired that there was a medical explanation for this injury. What is more disturbing is that this would never have come to light only for the fact that the parents had sought access to their sons personal data, and when they questioned it with the hospital, the CEO went in to typical defensive mode by refusing to grant the parents the courtesy of a meeting to discuss the issue. Perhaps the more salient point, is that the National Childrens Hospital itself showed such an utter disregard for Children's First Guidelines which itself states that any investigations should be carried out with in collaboration with and with the knowledge of the parents. Then we have the more serious issue where a child was interviewed and examined without the knowledge or consent of the parents....who themselves felt that subjected to hostile behaviour from staff working on the ward. If that was my child, I can tell you the doctor, social worker and any nurse that was present during this examination and interview would now be dealing with the Gardai, the courts, and their own professional body!

    http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/Repor...r-2011-eng.pdf
    If the child was being physically abused by one of his parents then surely it makes sense not to alert them to the fact that they are being investigated?
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  2. #12
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    Hospital apologises to parents after wrongful and 'distressing' abuse probe - National News - Independent.ie

    If the "children's rights" amendment had been voted on and passed years ago, the outcome of this case probably would have been much more serious. Parents who might have been in favour of the amendment and have read about this case are probably alarmed by the level of power that this amendment could give to health and social care staff who wrongly believe that a child who has good parents is being abused.
    So you are saying that on the basis of an amendment that has not been enacted, the wording of which you have not seen yet, a case you know little about WOULD have had a different outcome???

    NURSE!

    TIME TO UP HIS MEDICATION. HE'S HALLUCINATING AGAIN!
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  3. #13
    MrFunkyBoogaloo MrFunkyBoogaloo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyO'Brien View Post
    So you are saying that on the basis of an amendment that has not been enacted, the wording of which you have not seen yet, a case you know little about WOULD have had a different outcome???

    NURSE!

    TIME TO UP HIS MEDICATION. HE'S HALLUCINATING AGAIN!
    You missed post #8 obviously...
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  4. #14
    edifice. edifice. is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    Hospital apologises to parents after wrongful and 'distressing' abuse probe - National News - Independent.ie

    If the "children's rights" amendment had been voted on and passed years ago, the outcome of this case probably would have been much more serious. Parents who might have been in favour of the amendment and have read about this case are probably alarmed by the level of power that this amendment could give to health and social care staff who wrongly believe that a child who has good parents is being abused.
    I think this Referendum is as ill conceived as the Homeland Security set up in the US; emotional, reactionary and very prone to zealous errors.
    Last edited by edifice.; 27th June 2012 at 08:34 PM.
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  5. #15
    damus damus is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooch View Post
    If the child was being physically abused by one of his parents then surely it makes sense not to alert them to the fact that they are being investigated?
    No, because the issue at hand here was that the child presented with unexplained injuries...and finding the reason behind his medical presentation should have taken precedence....it didn't. It is also against natural justice for any person to be the subject matter of an investigation where they are particularly suspected of child abuse and treated with such hosility without the parents having the opportunity to clear their good name. The more serious issue relays to the examination and interviewing of a child without the informed consent or knowledge of the parents....which is in direct contravention of Children's First Guidelines. That is why I would be going down the line of medical assault and professional misconduct in relation to how the parents where treated.

    Page 76-78 of the Ombudsmans annual report explains this case.

    http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/Repor...r-2011-eng.pdf
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  6. #16
    jpc jpc is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by edifice. View Post
    I think this Referendum is as ill conceived as the Homeland Security set up in the US; emotional, reactionary and very prone to zealous errors.
    Absolutely!
    There are statutes as to what constitutes assault etc on the person.
    The last time I looked my kids were people fully entitled to those rights.
    Worthy well meaning referenda are not going to make life safer for kids.
    Many of the really horrendous cases were known about but not acted upon.
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  7. #17
    uriah uriah is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooch View Post
    If the child was being physically abused by one of his parents then surely it makes sense not to alert them to the fact that they are being investigated?
    They have a right to know.
    They are also entitled to know the identity of the person who has made any complaint.
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  8. #18
    edifice. edifice. is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpc View Post
    Absolutely!
    There are statutes as to what constitutes assault etc on the person.
    The last time I looked my kids were people fully entitled to those rights.
    Worthy well meaning referenda are not going to make life safer for kids.
    Many of the really horrendous cases were known about but not acted upon.
    Common sense offers the best protection for children. You start trying to reduce that to an obligatory paragraph you end up strangling the very sense that offers that protection. No brainer!
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  9. #19
    uriah uriah is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    If the "children's rights" amendment had been voted on and passed years ago, the outcome of this case probably would have been much more serious. Parents who might have been in favour of the amendment and have read about this case are probably alarmed by the level of power that this amendment could give to health and social care staff who wrongly believe that a child who has good parents is being abused.
    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    I don't need to know the exact text. It's obvious that the amendment will increase the risk that parents who are wrongly accused of abusing their children will lose them.
    Quote Originally Posted by edifice. View Post
    I think this Referendum is as ill conceived as the Homeland Security set up in the US; emotional, reactionary and very prone to zealous errors.
    Quote Originally Posted by jpc View Post
    Absolutely!
    There are statutes as to what constitutes assault etc on the person.
    The last time I looked my kids were people fully entitled to those rights.
    Worthy well meaning referenda are not going to make life safer for kids.
    Many of the really horrendous cases were known about but not acted upon.
    Minds made up before we have any idea of the text of the referendum.
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  10. #20
    edifice. edifice. is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by uriah View Post
    Minds made up before we have any idea of the text of the referendum.
    It shouldn't be reduced to a text.
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