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  1. #1
    ruserious ruserious is offline
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    Politics.ie "No Border in Ireland" Campaign

    Hello all,

    As most of us are aware, Ireland is heading into one of the most crucially important negotiations in the history of the State in mid December with regards to Brexit. Ireland faces a hard border being implemented in the island which will not only cause economic upheaval but possibly tear up the GFA and affect many cross border initiatives such as healthcare and agrifood.

    Some of you may have read Tony Connolly's article on the Irish efforts to date to avoid a hard Brexit. If not, please do: https://www.rte.ie/amp/920981/

    Ireland has potentially over a million citizens living North of the border. Citizens who's ancestors felt the South abandoned them in 1922. If Dublin caves on this issue, these citizens will be at the full mercy of the British Tory party and outside the ECJ potentially. It is crucially important that for these citizens alone, we must ensure that the full State apparatus is behind Ireland's push to ensure that NI remain in regulatory harmony with the Republic.

    This is something that every citizen and organisation including politics.ie should get behind. We have three weeks to maximise our presence. Getting onto family in the UK to plead with them to voice loudly that we will not accept a border in Ireland is one such example of what we can do.

    Earlier this week, the British rag papers wrote how Varadkar "better shut his mouth" in relation to Brexit. That is how we know that we are winning. But a lot more must be done. If the UK offer a deal on the other two Brexit red lines we will come under pressure to move the Border issue till the trade talks and that is when our veto becomes obsolete.

    To show solidarity with the government and in light of the "No Borders in Ireland" campaign, that the country needs, I have changed my avatar. I ask that all of you supporting the campaign do the same until the Brexit negotiation in December.

    rus
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  2. #2
    murf13 murf13 is offline

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    There can be no place on our island for an artificial and imaginary line.
    There can be no going back.
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  3. #3
    NYCKY NYCKY is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Hello all,

    As most of us are aware, Ireland is heading into one of the most crucially important negotiations in the history of the State in mid December with regards to Brexit. Ireland faces a hard border being implemented in the island which will not only cause economic upheaval but possibly tear up the GFA and affect many cross border initiatives such as healthcare and agrifood.

    Some of you may have read Tony Connolly's article on the Irish efforts to date to avoid a hard Brexit. If not, please do: https://www.rte.ie/amp/920981/

    Ireland has potentially over a million citizens living North of the border. Citizens who's ancestors felt the South abandoned them in 1922. If Dublin caves on this issue, these citizens will be at the full mercy of the British Tory party and outside the ECJ potentially. It is crucially important that for these citizens alone, we must ensure that the full State apparatus is behind Ireland's push to ensure that NI remain in regulatory harmony with the Republic.

    This is something that every citizen and organisation including politics.ie should get behind. We have three weeks to maximise our presence. Getting onto family in the UK to plead with them to voice loudly that we will not accept a border in Ireland is one such example of what we can do.

    Earlier this week, the British rag papers wrote how Varadkar "better shut his mouth" in relation to Brexit. That is how we know that we are winning. But a lot more must be done. If the UK offer a deal on the other two Brexit red lines we will come under pressure to move the Border issue till the trade talks and that is when our veto becomes obsolete.

    To show solidarity with the government and in light of the "No Borders in Ireland" campaign, that the country needs, I have changed my avatar. I ask that all of you supporting the campaign do the same until the Brexit negotiation in December.

    rus
    The DUP has gotten a pledge of an extra billion quid for Nothern Ireland. That's a lot of mercy.
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  4. #4
    GabhaDubh GabhaDubh is offline
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    The outreach of the GFA, by all sides, cannot be compromised. It is sacrosanct.
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  5. #5
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is online now
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    Look. If the UK leaves the Single Market and Customs Union, then there are going to be some sort of customs checks - whether manual or electronic. I think Varadkar made a big mistake if reports of the Dept of Finance being told to drop exploration of contingency plans are true. The UK wants to sign trade deals with non EU states, and remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union prevent that.

    In theory I would like to see some sort of Special Status for NI, so that the border/customs controls would be moved to the Irish sea. But a Tory govt propped up by the DUP probably won't agree to that (though I would argue a majority for it might exist in the House of Commons).

    If the Irish Sea-customs border can't be agreed, then we should explore obscure and largely invisible methods of customs duty collection and border control, having regard to the fact that visible ones might be in danger of being targeted by dissident or even provisional Republicans.

    We also need to be conscious of the fact that the final deal will be voted on by Qualified Majority Voting where we won't have a veto - though there remains the question of whether an Irish referendum would be required. I personally believe Article 50 clearly allows a country to leave the EU without a treaty change. On the other hand, if a Brexit agreement fundamentally altered the constitutional role of the EU (roughly the wording of the Crotty Judgement) then a referendum might be required. Then again that ruling was 31 years ago and many treaties have passed since then. The old Article 48 (possible renumbered now) does contained provisions for a "simplified revision procedure" which might allow a deal to be ratified without referendums.
    Last edited by Dame_Enda; 23rd November 2017 at 05:56 AM.
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  6. #6
    Sync Sync is offline
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    I heard that if 25 of us change our logos, the UK will give in, but every time someone changes it BACK a fairy dies.
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  7. #7
    Hillmanhunter1 Hillmanhunter1 is offline
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    Ireland needs to maintain the hardest line possible in relation to the border issue, and to ensure that the December meeting of the 27 determines that sufficient progress has not been made on this issue.

    Britain has put itself in this position, not Ireland, and it is not for Ireland to offer a scintilla of assistance in getting them out of it.

    There will inevitably be a second vote in the UK and it is in the interests of Ireland to ensure that the Brexit option is as unappealing as possible.

    To use a phrase with echoes from Anglo/Irish history I believe that in a second referendum the overwhelming majority of voters will look at the hard Brexit option and conclude that it is "such an appalling vista that every sensible person would say, "It cannot be right that these actions should go any further."
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  8. #8
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    The counter argument is that the harder the Border

    - the sooner it will be gone.....

    How and ever while Politically the Border issue is our Primary concern

    - it is Anglo-Irish Trade that is by far the more important issue from an Economic viewpoint

    We are not hearing so much about that

    - even though it has the potential to severely impact our economic well being.
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  9. #9
    Hillmanhunter1 Hillmanhunter1 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    The counter argument is that the harder the Border

    - the sooner it will be gone.....

    How and ever while Politically the Border issue is our Primary concern

    - it is Anglo-Irish Trade that is by far the more important issue from an Economic viewpoint

    We are not hearing so much about that

    - even though it has the potential to severely impact our economic well being.
    re Anglo-Irish trade - look at the statistics in my signature. EU-Irish trade is far more important.
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  10. #10
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillmanhunter1 View Post
    re Anglo-Irish trade - look at the statistics in my signature. EU-Irish trade is far more important.
    For home grown domestic companies Trade with Britain is still hugely important

    We are caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea on this one....
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