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  1. #1
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    BREXIT: the general forum

    There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

    The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

    The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

    Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

    What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?
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  2. #2
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Here is an article from today's Observer about the influence of a "shadowy global operation" by rich men influenced Brexit. It may already be influencing the 8 June election results. British electoral laws cannot yet cope with digital influence.

    The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked

    A shadowy global operation involving big data, billionaire friends of Trump and the disparate forces of the Leave campaign influenced the result of the EU referendum. As Britain heads to the polls again, is our electoral process still fit for purpose?
    A company called Cambridge Analytics, a data company owned by billionaire Robert Mercer, whose daughter was very influential in Don "Capone" Trump's campaign, was involved in the referendum. He is also a good friend of Nigel Farage The article has chilling comments:
    It … reveals a critical and gaping hole in the political debate in Britain. Because what is happening in America and what is happening in Britain are entwined. Brexit and Trump are entwined. The Trump administration’s links to Russia and Britain are entwined. And Cambridge Analytica is one point of focus through which we can see all these relationships in play; it also reveals the elephant in the room as we hurtle into a general election: Britain tying its future to an America that is being remade - in a radical and alarming way - by Trump.There are three strands to this story. How the foundations of an authoritarian surveillance state are being laid in the US. How British democracy was subverted through a covert, far-reaching plan of coordination enabled by a US billionaire. And how we are in the midst of a massive land grab for power by billionaires via our data. Data which is being silently amassed, harvested and stored. Whoever owns this data owns the future.
    What, I wonder, is the endgame? Power for power's sake? I am puzzled by all this. Do these powers want to end GB, the EU and anything else? How can data owners "own the future"?
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  3. #3
    wombat wombat is offline
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    FFS, when will people realise d'internet is not the centre of most people's lives, it isn't even as influential as TV.
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  4. #4
    Man or Mouse Man or Mouse is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracethepirate View Post
    There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

    The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

    The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

    Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

    What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?
    D'ya think they'll leave?
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  5. #5
    shiel shiel is offline

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    The EU is a union of nearly thirty European democracies each of which signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest in a continent which has suffered centuries of imperial and totalitarian violence.

    It is the most advanced such treaty in the world.

    But after decades of anti-EU propaganda in their media the English do not want the EU to exist any longer.

    Consequently through Brexit - which they hope will be reinforced by this election - they are tearing up their part of the treaty they signed.

    They also support those racists and fascists in the rest of Europe who favour doing the same thing.

    The English have, therefore, declared racist and economic war on the rest of the EU.

    There will be the hardest of Brexits and Ireland will suffer.

    The fact that some people advocate that we join them outside the EU is to put it mildly not a good idea.
    Last edited by shiel; 7th May 2017 at 10:13 PM.
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  6. #6
    jmcc jmcc is offline

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    Brexit should have its own forum here.
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  7. #7
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiel View Post
    The EU is a union of nearly thirty European democracies each of which signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest in a continent which has suffered centuries of imperial and totalitarian violence.

    It is the most advanced such treaty in the world.

    But after decades of anti-EU propaganda in their media the English do not want the EU to exist any longer.

    Consequently through Brexit - which they hope will be reinforced by this election - they are tearing up their part of the treaty they signed.

    The English have, therefore, declared racist and economic war on the rest of the EU.

    There will be the hardest of Brexits and Ireland will suffer.

    The fact that some people advocate that we join them outside the EU is to put it mildly not a good idea.


    They also support those racists and fascists in the rest of Europe who favour doing the same thing.
    I think Ireland will hang in there in the EU. It is no longer so dependent upon GB as it was when it joined the EEC and Ireland had no choice but to join too or be financially doomed. And I do hope the EU will help the 6 counties being reunited with the other 26. In the meantime there may be a problem with the landborder, but I hope not.
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  8. #8
    cricket cricket is offline

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    I think you'll get nothing but posturing from most parties in the UK until after the GE. The real test will come when they get down to talks. There is little indication so far as to what UK realistically expect.We're in for a long and dirty campaign.
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  9. #9
    Mad as Fish Mad as Fish is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracethepirate View Post
    Here is an article from today's Observer about the influence of a "shadowy global operation" by rich men influenced Brexit. It may already be influencing the 8 June election results. British electoral laws cannot yet cope with digital influence.

    The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked

    A company called Cambridge Analytics, a data company owned by billionaire Robert Mercer, whose daughter was very influential in Don "Capone" Trump's campaign, was involved in the referendum. He is also a good friend of Nigel Farage The article has chilling comments:

    What, I wonder, is the endgame? Power for power's sake? I am puzzled by all this. Do these powers want to end GB, the EU and anything else? How can data owners "own the future"?
    Ask Gates, Tusk, Uber, Amazon etc etc. They want their tentacles in every part of your life for the sake of having some sort over power over you. Digitization has allowed and encouraged this and they are getting dizzy just thinking about what they hope to achieve. Try and stand up to this brutal rape of your privacy and right to self determination and you'll have the children screaming Luddite at you because they have been taught to compartmentalise life into the narrow confines of digital logic rather than appreciate the richness of possessing an all encompassing soul and human spirit.
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  10. #10
    shiel shiel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad as Fish View Post
    Ask, Gates, Tusk, Uber, Amazon etc etc. They want their tentacles in every part of your life for the sake of having some sort over power over you. Digitization has allowed and encouraged this and they are getting dizzy just thinking about what they hope to achieve. Try and stand up to this brutal rape of your privacy and right to self determination and you'll have the children screaming Luddite at you because they have been taught to compartmentalise life into the narrow confines of digital logic rather than appreciate the richness of possessing an all encompassing soul and human spirit.
    Being part of the EU is losing your 'all encompassing soul and human spirit'?

    A bit of an exaggeration.

    Leaving the EU and rejoining the UK might be a bit much alright.
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