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  1. #21
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
    Merkel, Trichet, Sarkozy, Olli Rehn also think Ireland should hang. Greece is rvidence of where it all eventually ends.
    afaik Ireland is not in the same dire economic situation as Greece is (or was).
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  2. #22
    Aristodemus Aristodemus is offline
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    This is the most sober assessment I have read of Britain's position on Brexit. What should be most concerning is the complete absence of any real opposition to the course of Brexit set out by those in charge.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-germany-eu-uk
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  3. #23
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristodemus View Post
    This is the most sober assessment I have read of Britain's position on Brexit. What should be most concerning is the complete absence of any real opposition to the course of Brexit set out by those in charge.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-germany-eu-uk
    I agree there isn't an enthusiastic, coherent leadership among the Remainers. This started with David Cameron (who should not have agreed to a referendum being held) whose arguments for Remaining were gibberish and full of faux threats. I have utter contempt for him.

    More coherent and effective arguments in favour of Remain were in a book by Gordon Brown but he seems to be somewhat absent in this election, which is a pity. And Tony Blair is keeping in the background (or the media is keeping him there).

    There is a group called "Best for Britain" which has Gina Miller on its Board but I am not sure that it is doing all that well in brining out the message. They are trying to recruit young voters because they are most affected by Brexit.
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  4. #24
    Hewson Hewson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristodemus View Post
    This is the most sober assessment I have read of Britain's position on Brexit. What should be most concerning is the complete absence of any real opposition to the course of Brexit set out by those in charge.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-germany-eu-uk
    I read that article recently and, as you say, it's both sober and incisive. All Brits should should read it but too many will trash it simply by virtue of their antipathy to the newspaper in which it's printed. The ideological (and illogical) gulf in Britain between left and right is determining the course of the country's exit from Europe and everyone stands to lose out as a result.

    Too many Brits still have the 1939 bunker mentality and see the EU as an equally serious threat to their sense of 'Britishness' as Nazi Germany posed to their independence. This kind of simple-mindedness does nobody any favours. The empire is history and the world has moved on and, largely, grown up. People tend to forget that right up to the middle of the 20th century Europe was a region ravaged by one war or another between a succession of its component parts. The various wars that afflicted hundreds of thousands of people after the breakup of Yugoslavia were typical of the conflicts the continent endured for centuries.

    One of the enduring benefits the EU has brought is peace. Economic advancements make for fewer grievances and the mechanisms for talking rather than warring are all in place.

    While the wish to control immigration is understandable, Britain is in danger of making the same mistake as the US by knee-jerking against logic and electing a right-wing administration with too much power. Theresa May seems quite comfortable with Trump, a man intent on dragging America back to the intolerant bigotry of the 1930s. If she gets the predicted landslide on June 8 the lunatic fringe of the Tory Party will see it as a blank cheque to implement whatever crackpot policies their anti-EU mood dictates.

    Trump will be gone soon enough but May will have five years to wreck the British economy as she trots around the globe to former colonies with the trade deal begging bowl. The British public is still being lied to about the consequences of leaving the world's most important and wealthy trading bloc.

    Appeals to their nationalistic pride based on historical achievements might make them feel better but it's all a mirage.
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  5. #25
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  6. #26
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
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  7. #27
    Volatire Volatire is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
    I read that article recently and, as you say, it's both sober and incisive. All Brits should should read it but too many will trash it simply by virtue of their antipathy to the newspaper in which it's printed. The ideological (and illogical) gulf in Britain between left and right is determining the course of the country's exit from Europe and everyone stands to lose out as a result.

    Too many Brits still have the 1939 bunker mentality and see the EU as an equally serious threat to their sense of 'Britishness' as Nazi Germany posed to their independence. This kind of simple-mindedness does nobody any favours. The empire is history and the world has moved on and, largely, grown up. People tend to forget that right up to the middle of the 20th century Europe was a region ravaged by one war or another between a succession of its component parts. The various wars that afflicted hundreds of thousands of people after the breakup of Yugoslavia were typical of the conflicts the continent endured for centuries.

    One of the enduring benefits the EU has brought is peace. Economic advancements make for fewer grievances and the mechanisms for talking rather than warring are all in place.

    While the wish to control immigration is understandable, Britain is in danger of making the same mistake as the US by knee-jerking against logic and electing a right-wing administration with too much power. Theresa May seems quite comfortable with Trump, a man intent on dragging America back to the intolerant bigotry of the 1930s. If she gets the predicted landslide on June 8 the lunatic fringe of the Tory Party will see it as a blank cheque to implement whatever crackpot policies their anti-EU mood dictates.

    Trump will be gone soon enough but May will have five years to wreck the British economy as she trots around the globe to former colonies with the trade deal begging bowl. The British public is still being lied to about the consequences of leaving the world's most important and wealthy trading bloc.

    Appeals to their nationalistic pride based on historical achievements might make them feel better but it's all a mirage.
    Sober and incisive horseshít.
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  8. #28
    Trainwreck Trainwreck is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracethepirate View Post
    There are a several Brexit threads on p.ie but none seem to fit some aspects, so I thought I'd start a general thread in which people can put various bits of Brexit stuff, or overall issues.

    The Brexit referendum was won, inter alia, on lies, which Farage admitted the day after the Leave vote won by just a few percentage points, ignorance, hubris expressed by some Brits who oppose immigration and international interference. The referendum was advisory only, but the Tories decided to accept the results and eventually Theresa May signed a notice under Article 50 to say that GB will be leaving the EU in two years' time.

    The EU holds all the cards, no matter the Brit bravado. I expect (sadly) that the divorce will be very hard on GB.

    Few groups/people suggest that there be another referendum. These include the LibDems, and Tony Blair, while the current Labour leader hasn't the foggiest as per usual. IMHO it may be more democratic to let voters have another say, now that they know the consequences of leaving the EU and that they were lied to, blatantly, by the Brexit leaders.

    What do you think about this and any other issue regarding Brexit?

    Jesus, not a good start.

    You are a fruitloop.
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  9. #29
    Breanainn Breanainn is offline

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    When will the NHS be getting its extra £350m per week, then?
    Last edited by Breanainn; 11th May 2017 at 02:24 PM.
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  10. #30
    Deadlock Deadlock is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsui2 View Post
    Ta for that, Deadlock - those LSE items are particularly interesting, and I doubt I'd have come across them otherwise.
    You're very welcome. Sadly of course the LSE items in particular are just "expert opinion" - and well - down with that kind of thing!
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