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  1. #17561
    FOURGREENFIELDS FOURGREENFIELDS is offline

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    I am watching BBC Question Time here and just shaking my head. A few of the panellists are clued in about the Irish border and the problems facing the island of Ireland BUT the Welsh audience just haven't a clue and/or don't give a monkeys about it. For them it's ALL about getting out of Europe, trade deals and that's it.
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  2. #17562
    Niall996 Niall996 is offline
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    What will happen in the channel islands?
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  3. #17563
    Roomtwo Roomtwo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogen View Post
    All this talk of allingment and GFA seems to assume the Irish border is just a local affair.

    But surely, in the worst case scenario of a WTO hard Brexit, the biggest problem would be, not so much Irish cross border trade, but the potential for Ireland to be used as a back channel between the continent and the UK. In other words what ever arrangement exists on the border must also be the arrangement that exists between Dover and Calais. Otherwise what would stop a lorry travelling Cherbourg-Rosslare-Larne:Stranraer-London. Where would such a lorry encounter a customs check?

    If nowhere, then there seems little point of having checks on the English Channel and (WTO rules are broken).

    But if there are checks, then there seem (to me) to be four possible locations;
    1. Land border between ROI and NI. We know the problems there.
    2. Sea crossing between NI and Scotland. Ditto
    3. Land border between Scotland and England; This would of course assume that Scotland got the same opt out as NI and effectively stayed in the CU/SM. Maybe equally difficult politicaly as 1 or 2, but at least it is a much more manageable border then the Irish one as it tends to follow geography more, and is far less historically sensitive.
    4. Some checks on goods travelling between the rest of the EU and RoI, maybe with some evidence required that they are destined for the Island of Ireland only.


    Options 3 and 4 get little mention.

    Is the last one something we in the south should be worried about? It would create at the very least an added administrative barrier to trade between RoI and rest of EU trade and thus put our traders at yet further disadvantage.

    Option 3 made me smile. Long ago there was a lot of smuggling on the Solway. Good caves down there.

    I agree it's not harder. Does it come down to who finds option 3 politically harder or easier than 1, and who has any say?

    For many this is an Irish problem and the Irish should sort it. Peace in Ireland looks to be irrelevant to the Tories, and any UK govt would be happier to risk losing NI than Scotland.

    Almost all the threats used to get people to vote No in 2014 have either already come about as a result of staying in the union, or will happen as a result of staying in the union plus Brexit. The only one I can think of that stands in 2017, is a hard border.

    We were told there'd be a hard border with armed guards between England and Scotland because the EU would never have us. We know now that the EU would have us. So a hard border between iScotland and England has become realistic now, only as a result of Brexit, and it's just about all they've got.

    The UK would have to start recording realistic data on the economic activity of Scotland. No more doing the books by motivated guesswork. It would put the too wee, too poor argument out of it's misery.

    They can't have Scotland doing more things differently, and doing better on the other side of a hard border. We'd get above ourselves. They'd lose the oil, the renewables potential, the exports and the nuke park.

    One of the things that might burst the bubble of English exceptionalism that keeps enough voters in England compliant, would be an independent Scotland, with PR, in the EU or EEA. So they could lose England too.


    And option 3 would break Rory Stewart's heart.



    Edit “I agree it's not harder” - should have said 3 = massively less harm. But not considered because....
    Last edited by Roomtwo; 8th December 2017 at 01:51 AM.
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  4. #17564
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    What will happen in the channel islands?
    They just go along with whatever the rest of GB does as they are dependencies (or whatever). They are different from NI

    However, they have expressed some concerns especially regarding foreign (mostly EU) employees and I hope they are addressed.
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  5. #17565
    talkingshop talkingshop is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOURGREENFIELDS View Post
    I know but we are in a different scenario altogether now. While the GFA IS important the No. 1 focus for the Irish government is their economy and if that means infringing or reworking the GFA they WILL do so, be under no illusions.
    Oh stop being paranoid! The Irish government is not going to undermine the GFA - we spent enough time and effort getting it into place.
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  6. #17566
    Cai Cai is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by FOURGREENFIELDS View Post
    I am watching BBC Question Time here and just shaking my head. A few of the panellists are clued in about the Irish border and the problems facing the island of Ireland BUT the Welsh audience just haven't a clue and/or don't give a monkeys about it. For them it's ALL about getting out of Europe, trade deals and that's it.
    You must have been watching a different programme to me. The audience was split.
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  7. #17567
    Tribal Tribal is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    What will happen in the channel islands?
    Grey listed, but obviously extremely liable to upgrade after Brexit.
    Britain had shown reticence over the process, EU officials said. No British overseas territories such as the Cayman Islands or Bermuda, nor the Channel Islands were put on the blacklist, in what was seen as a diplomatic victory for London. They were put on the grey list instead.

    EU states have not been screened and will not be on the list. The commission said none of the 28 members of the bloc can be classified as a tax haven, as all have agreed to respect EU tax standards.
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu...-idUKKBN1DZ28O
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  8. #17568
    gracethepirate gracethepirate is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribal View Post
    Grey listed, but obviously extremely liable to upgrade after Brexit.

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu...-idUKKBN1DZ28O
    That's very recent news. I wonder if they would have been listed at all by the EU if GB wasn't leaving.
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  9. #17569
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorse View Post
    Are you allowed to whittle away data just like that?
    You have to clean it up.
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  10. #17570
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall996 View Post
    What will happen in the channel islands?
    Rich people will avoid paying tax.
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