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  1. #71
    cricket cricket is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by michael-mcivor View Post
    Nothing in Sunningdale about the POWs getting home or the brit army patrols / barracks being removed- getting the anti Catholic oath of allegiance removed from Stormont / the police etc- getting RAF armed helicopters removed- getting rid of the 1920 Government of Ireland act- traitors supported Sunningdale- the Irish 32 Support the GFA-
    All agreements involve compromise. Shinners have now signed up to recognition of the NI state, stormont, police, etc. Sunningdale had the ability to build trust in a deeply divided society, instead the "war" drove them further apart for more than another generation.
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  2. #72
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAGE61 View Post
    Like it or lump it but if Hume receives accolades as a Giant of the Peace process , Shurly Adams will have to be seen as the Goliath of the process.

    Without ranting and taking sides. Adams was the pivot
    Goliath was the Philistine giant whom little David had to kill. If the Goliath was Violent Nationalism, then Hume and Adams and McGuinness can claim credit for slaying it, at least for a while.

    IMHO, we have living in Hume's Vision, not Adams'.

    That shows who was the better man.

    PS I do respect Adams for abandoning violence, it was a great-hearted and magnanimous act, worthy of admiration. But he donned Hume's mantle - something I think Hume allowed a little too easily.
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  3. #73
    hollandia hollandia is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricket View Post
    All agreements involve compromise. Shinners have now signed up to recognition of the NI state, stormont, police, etc. Sunningdale had the ability to build trust in a deeply divided society, instead the "war" drove them further apart for more than another generation.
    Are you still pushing this sub conor Cruise O'Brien bollox? sunningdale was a failure, and failed because of unionism. Republicans were not party to it. Grow the fck up. You're just the establishment mirror image of the tool you're replying to.
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  4. #74
    cricket cricket is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollandia View Post
    Are you still pushing this sub conor Cruise O'Brien bollox? sunningdale was a failure, and failed because of unionism. Republicans were not party to it. Grow the fck up. You're just the establishment mirror image of the tool you're replying to.
    Shinners were not involved in Sunningdale , but they're now on board for a first cousin, same body, different clothing. 2,500 deaths later.
    Shinners can be awfully sensitive at times
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  5. #75
    stopdoingstuff stopdoingstuff is offline
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    I really miss the IRA and the troubles. All those people like Hume and Albert Reynolds really ruined my buzz.
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  6. #76
    PAGE61 PAGE61 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Goliath was the Philistine giant whom little David had to kill. If the Goliath was Violent Nationalism, then Hume and Adams and McGuinness can claim credit for slaying it, at least for a while.

    IMHO, we have living in Hume's Vision, not Adams'.

    That shows who was the better man.




    PS I do respect Adams for abandoning violence, it was a great-hearted and magnanimous act, worthy of admiration. But he donned Hume's mantle - something I think Hume allowed a little too easily.
    Hume had no clout with the republican movement , Adams had . Don't get me wrong, Hume played an important part but in resolving the Issue ,I think more of the Credit had to go to Adams .
    I do think Hume was frustrated with the British heavy handed approach but at the same time realised he had no bargaining chips and I think the British knew that if Adams was not on board then the game was over
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  7. #77
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricket View Post

    Apart from Hume, there were some highly skillful players in the Irish diplomatic service ..
    That included the Irish diplomats who delayed justice for the Birmingham Six and who waged a smear campaign against Fr Denis Faul and Fr Raymond Murray.
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  8. #78
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricket View Post

    Shinners were not involved in Sunningdale , but they're now on board for a first cousin, same body, different clothing. 2,500 deaths later.
    Shinners can be awfully sensitive at times

    Please stop telling lies. By the time of the Good Friday Agreement, the dismantling of Prod Privilege had advanced much further than at the time of the Sunningdale Agreement.
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  9. #79
    Glenshane4 Glenshane4 is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricket View Post

    Sunningdale had the ability to build trust in a deeply divided society, instead the "war" drove them further apart for more than another generation.

    It had no such potential. Nor does the Good Friday Agreement. There is no possibility of building trust in Northern Ireland. The best that might come is a tense inter-tribal truce hopefully leading to a devolved government within the UK for the mainly Catholic areas of Northern Ireland - a Catholic Statelet for a Catholic people.
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  10. #80
    Wigmore Wigmore is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAGE61 View Post
    Like it or lump it but if Hume receives accolades as a Giant of the Peace process , Shurly Adams will have to be seen as the Goliath of the process.

    Without ranting and taking sides. Adams was the pivot
    The main differentiator in the way I view both men is that Adams spent 30 years actively (allegedly) or passively (certainly) enabling the murder of citizens of Britain and Ireland. Hume didn't.
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