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  1. #1
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Bosnia 20 Years On - Today with PK


    REMEMBERING CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN BOSNIA

    Pat spoke to British Journalist Eddie Vulliamy this morning about his time in the Balkans in the early 90's.
    Mr. Vulliamy witnessed the first Serbian concentration camps and encountered the menacing Serbian military on the move into Bosnia.

    He spoke to Pat about his subsequent meetings with people who survived the death camps - which are detailed in his new book, The War is Dead, Long Live the War - Bosnia 20 Years On.

    It's quite hard to believe that such horrors on such a scale could have occured in Europe ("so close to Venice", as one Serbian Militray man mocked) a mere 20 years ago.

    Reflection on the atrocities of the Balkan Wars, should give pause for thought to those criticising current spending on our defense forces and the likelihood of Ireland "going to war". It begs the question, is an EU Rapid Reaction Force such a bad idea?

    We know that there's no point in having a UN military that cannot act. We saw the humiliation and helplessness of the Dutch Battalion under the UN, supposed to be operating a protectorate in Srebrenica, who were effectively expelled by the Serbs under Ratko Mladic before some 10,000 men and boys were slaughtered in the following days.


    Dutch colonel Thom Karremans (third from left) forced to apologise to Mladic for briefly opening fire on his invasion forces.

    You can listen back to the interview here:

    http://www.rte.ie/player

    Some other interesting articles here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/op...-sarajevo.html

    Bosnia's victims 20 years on: survivors of a nightmare with no reckoning | World news | The Observer
    Last edited by Lonewolfe; 25th April 2012 at 01:45 PM.
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  2. #2
    ffc ffc is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post

    REMEMBERING CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN BOSNIA

    Pat spoke to British Journalist Eddie Vulliamy this morning about his time in the Balkans in the early 90's.
    Mr. Vulliamy witnessed the first Serbian concentration camps and encountered the menacing Serbian military on the move into Bosnia.

    He spoke to Pat about his subsequent meetings with people who survived the death camps - which are detailed in his new book, The War is Dead, Long Live the War - Bosnia 20 Years On.

    It's quite hard to believe that such horrors on such a scale could have occured in Europe ("so close to Venice", as one Serbian Militray man mocked) a mere 20 years ago.

    Reflection on the atrocities of the Balkan Wars, should give pause for thought to those criticising current spending on our defense forces and the likelihood of Ireland "going to war". It begs the question, is an EU Rapid Reaction Force such a bad idea?

    We know that there's no point in having a UN military that cannot act. We saw the humiliation and helplessness of the Dutch Battalion under the UN, supposed to be operating a protectorate in Srebrenica, who were effectively expelled by the Serbs under Ratko Mladic before some 10,000 men and boys were slaughtered in the following days.


    Dutch colonel Thom Karremans (third from left) forced to apologise to Mladic for briefly opening fire on his invasion forces.

    You can listen back to the interview here:

    RTÉ Player: Catch up with your favourite TV programmes online

    Some other interesting articles here:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/op...-sarajevo.html

    Bosnia's victims 20 years on: survivors of a nightmare with no reckoning | World news | The Observer




    Ever since the second world war the British and american media have only ever been able to portray conflict as a good versus evil struggle. One side is picked and declared the good guys and the other side are called the bad guys, or the Nazis. Things are never really that simple.



    LM vs ITN: The Picture That Fooled The World


    Serb Demonization as Propaganda Coup | FPIF
    Last edited by ffc; 25th April 2012 at 02:09 PM.
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  3. #3
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is online now
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    Heard that - an excellent interview.

    Vulliamy obviously still feels passionate about the whole disgraceful period. I'm torn as to whether or not to read the book, though, because I know it will remind me all over again of how bloody angry at the EU I was at the time. Its "three monkeys" behaviour during the Bosnian war in particular was where some of us older posters first learned to feel euroscepticism. And the way the UN command hung the Dutch out to dry over the taking of Srebrenica didn't do much for that organisation's rep either.

    "So close to Venice" indeed!
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  4. #4
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffc View Post
    Ever since the second world war the British and american media have only ever been able to portray conflict as a good versus evil struggle. One side is picked and declared the good guys and the other side are called the bad guys, or the Nazis. Things are never really that simple.



    LM vs ITN: The Picture That Fooled The World


    Serb Demonization as Propaganda Coup | FPIF
    There's no doubt that atrocities were committed by all sides.

    However, I think it would be swimming against the tide of pretty much all objective sources to suggest that the Serbs were not the main aggressors and perpetrators of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
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  5. #5
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffc View Post
    Ever since the second world war the British and american media have only ever been able to portray conflict as a good versus evil struggle. One side is picked and declared the good guys and the other side are called the bad guys, or the Nazis. Things are never really that simple.



    LM vs ITN: The Picture That Fooled The World


    Serb Demonization as Propaganda Coup | FPIF
    This is hilarious stuff taken from the article you posted. I mean, really? How does the author explain their emaciated bodies and their dead relatives? How does the author explain Srebrenicia?:

    The barbed wire in the picture is not around the Bosnian Muslims; it is around the cameraman and the journalists. It formed part of a broken-down barbed wire fence encircling a small compound that was next to Trnopolje camp. The British news team filmed from inside this compound, shooting pictures of the refugees and the camp through the compound fence. In the eyes of many who saw them, the resulting pictures left the false impression that the Bosnian Muslims were caged behind barbed wire.
    Last edited by Lonewolfe; 25th April 2012 at 03:38 PM.
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  6. #6
    Picasso Republic Picasso Republic is offline
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    really kids - the dog has gone to live with a really nice farmer.

    In any war there will be innaccuracies, however the sniping and shelling of civilians in Sarajevo, the mass slaughter of muslims in Srbnerice, Gorayde, Tusla and other towns and cities, the murder of prisoners etc etc etc.

    In terms of goodies and baddies - these are rarely clearly defiined in war, but the Serbs certainly had many psychopathic groups within their ranks.
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  7. #7
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picasso Republic View Post
    really kids - the dog has gone to live with a really nice farmer.

    In any war there will be innaccuracies, however the sniping and shelling of civilians in Sarajevo, the mass slaughter of muslims in Srbnerice, Gorayde, Tusla and other towns and cities, the murder of prisoners etc etc etc.

    In terms of goodies and baddies - these are rarely clearly defiined in war, but the Serbs certainly had many psychopathic groups within their ranks.
    The Serb atrocities so vastly outnumber those of all other groups that it's an argument not worth having.

    They simply would not ALLOW the rights of any small States to declare independence - even those with a 90% ethnic Albanian population - after the break up of Yugoslavia.
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  8. #8
    Interista Interista is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    The Serb atrocities so vastly outnumber those of all other groups that it's an argument not worth having.

    They simply would not ALLOW the rights of any small States to declare independence - even those with a 90% ethnic Albanian population - after the break up of Yugoslavia.
    The Serbs offered the Kosovans considerable autonomy, amounting to independence in all but name, but the Kosovans rejected it, knowing that with the Western powers on their side they could hold out for more.

    And in fairness, what state would ever voluntarily relinquish 15% of its sovereign territory?
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  9. #9
    Telemachus Telemachus is offline
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    And here in the rest of Europe, the leftist elite is trying to construct new Yugoslavias.

    Of course being a leftist means never having to say you are sorry. So when the dream turns sour after human nature is ignored, fingers will point once again to those wicked of men - the nationalists.

    What horror the Ottomans and Communists had bestowed on the balkans. Will anything be learned - of course not!
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  10. #10
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interista View Post
    The Serbs offered the Kosovans considerable autonomy, amounting to independence in all but name, but the Kosovans rejected it, knowing that with the Western powers on their side they could hold out for more.

    And in fairness, what state would ever voluntarily relinquish 15% of its sovereign territory?
    That's true but what's the status of Kosovo now? The Serbs have lost it for good.

    The Serbs embarked on such a brutal campaign that there really can be no excuses for it.
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