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  1. #171
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interista View Post
    The Serbs offered the Kosovans considerable autonomy, amounting to independence in all but name
    How kind of them.

    but the Kosovans rejected it, knowing that with the Western powers on their side they could hold out for more.
    And why wouldn't they?
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  2. #172
    Toland Toland is online now
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    The Kosovans had televisions and radios and newspapers and were well aware of what had happened to Srebenica and Sarajevo with the tacit (and sometimes far more than tacit) support of the Serbian state.
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  3. #173
    LoughFoyle LoughFoyle is offline

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    At uni I went out with a Bosnian Croat who was born in Sarajevo and moved to London during the war. She had some stories to tell and her father fought in the siege of Sarajevo alongside the muslims. The Serbs were very much the agressors in that situation.
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  4. #174
    Toland Toland is online now
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    I'm heartily sick of this irresponsible attempt portray all sides in the Bosnian War in the same terms as Fianna Fáil liked to present all Irish politicians: "they're all the same".

    It's more harmful than most other types of conspiracy theorising.

    THEY WEREN'T ALL THE SAME.
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  5. #175
    gerhard dengler gerhard dengler is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoughFoyle View Post
    At uni I went out with a Bosnian Croat who was born in Sarajevo and moved to London during the war. She had some stories to tell and her father fought in the siege of Sarajevo alongside the muslims. The Serbs were very much the agressors in that situation.
    The Serbs were the initial aggressors throughout the Balkans but Croatia wasn't far behind them in the aggression and landgrabbing stakes.

    Both were emboldened in their aggression by the decision of western and eastern countries recognition of both their respective claims for independence.
    And Bosnia was pillaged as a result.

    That war is a dreadful stain on Europe's record.
    Pointless and futile doesn't begin to describe 1990-1995 in that region.
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  6. #176
    Dohville Dohville is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonewolfe View Post
    There's no doubt that atrocities were committed by all sides.

    However, I think it would be swimming against the tide of pretty much all objective sources to suggest that the Serbs were not the main aggressors and perpetrators of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
    And Croatia were an innocent bystander....
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  7. #177
    LoughFoyle LoughFoyle is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard dengler View Post
    The Serbs were the initial aggressors throughout the Balkans but Croatia wasn't far behind them in the aggression and landgrabbing stakes.

    Both were emboldened in their aggression by the decision of western and eastern countries recognition of both their respective claims for independence.
    And Bosnia was pillaged as a result.

    That war is a dreadful stain on Europe's record.
    Pointless and futile doesn't begin to describe 1990-1995 in that region.
    I was reffering to the siege of Sarajevo. Yes I'm aware that the Croats did some dodgey things too. I seen former Serb houses riddled in bullets for myself. Tino, my ex's father joined the Croat army after the siege and got shot so was out of action but said with certainty that if the war hadn't ended when it did that the Croat army would have ended up in Belgrade within a week.
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  8. #178
    Lonewolfe Lonewolfe is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dohville View Post
    And Croatia were an innocent bystander....
    Where did I say that?
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  9. #179
    NewGoldDream NewGoldDream is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toland View Post
    I'm heartily sick of this irresponsible attempt portray all sides in the Bosnian War in the same terms as Fianna Fáil liked to present all Irish politicians: "they're all the same".

    It's more harmful than most other types of conspiracy theorising.

    THEY WEREN'T ALL THE SAME.
    I agree. It has changed. You used to get the stroke, but deep down fellows had to know they were wrong. Now you get the big land deal, the lies to the Dáil, the stroke, the wrong doing...with apparently no idea that it's wrong, or shock that anyone could even think as much! It's like the current crop believe their own crap is clean!

    As for Bosnia, what happened there is a disgrace, as is the attempt to afterwards say that the Serbs were the victims of the Western World and some Catholic Croat conspiracy. Noone should ever forget what happened in the woods around Srebernica. It was savage.
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  10. #180
    Partizan Partizan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard dengler View Post
    The Serbs were the initial aggressors throughout the Balkans but Croatia wasn't far behind them in the aggression and landgrabbing stakes.

    Both were emboldened in their aggression by the decision of western and eastern countries recognition of both their respective claims for independence.
    And Bosnia was pillaged as a result.

    That war is a dreadful stain on Europe's record.
    Pointless and futile doesn't begin to describe 1990-1995 in that region.
    I would consult a history book before your regurgitate that tired old Western line of Serbs were the aggressors/bad guys etc. You do know that it was the Slovenes who fired the first shots in the war when they seized the Yugoslav border crossings with Italy and Austria and that the first casualty was actually a Slovene JNA helicopter pilot who was killed as his chopper was shot down over Ljubljana on the opening day of hostilities. He was killed by his fellow kin. That case was one of many on the war.
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