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Armageddon Ahoy! Nuclear weapons to deter nuclear weapons!

This is a discussion on Armageddon Ahoy! Nuclear weapons to deter nuclear weapons! within the Foreign Affairs forums, part of the Topical Discussion category on Politics.ie. The lunatics are at it again. 'Root and branch reform of NATO' to include pre-emptive nuclear strike as legitimate option. ...

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Old 22nd January 2008
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Default Armageddon Ahoy! Nuclear weapons to deter nuclear weapons!

The lunatics are at it again. 'Root and branch reform of NATO' to include pre-emptive nuclear strike as legitimate option. Oblivion, here we come:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,3321 ... 02,00.html
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Dr Strangelove, anyone?
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Old 22nd January 2008
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We've been there before. The entire nuclear strategy of the Cold War was based on the M.A.D. theory i.e Mutually Assured Destruction. The same applies now. It is only by showing that you have nuclear weapons and are prepared to use them in a pre-emptive strike that you can keep a lid on them. Anyone remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? That is exactly what Kennedy threatened Kruschev with and the Soviets blinked first.
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Old 22nd January 2008
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How is this news?

Here's a story from 1976

Soviet Bloc Seeks First-Strike Curb On Nuclear Arms; SOVIET BLOC URGING A FIRST-STRIKE CURB

Quote:
BUCHAREST, Rumania, Nov. 26 The Soviet-led Warsaw Pact proposed today that the West join in an accord to prohibit the first use of nuclear weapons by either side in a conflict.
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasayev
How is this news?

Here's a story from 1976

Soviet Bloc Seeks First-Strike Curb On Nuclear Arms; SOVIET BLOC URGING A FIRST-STRIKE CURB

Quote:
BUCHAREST, Rumania, Nov. 26 The Soviet-led Warsaw Pact proposed today that the West join in an accord to prohibit the first use of nuclear weapons by either side in a conflict.
True. Right through the 70's and 80's (maybe earlier, only I don't remember any further back) the Russians had a vast superiority in conventional weapons in Europe. First use of nuclear weapons and MAD was the only threat that NATO had to wave at Russia.
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasayev
How is this news?

Here's a story from 1976

Soviet Bloc Seeks First-Strike Curb On Nuclear Arms; SOVIET BLOC URGING A FIRST-STRIKE CURB

Quote:
BUCHAREST, Rumania, Nov. 26 The Soviet-led Warsaw Pact proposed today that the West join in an accord to prohibit the first use of nuclear weapons by either side in a conflict.
True. Right through the 70's and 80's (maybe earlier, only I don't remember any further back) the Russians had a vast superiority in conventional weapons in Europe. First use of nuclear weapons and MAD was the only threat that NATO had to wave at Russia.
Exactly! NATO knew that they had 3 days of conventional battlefield warfare to play with. After that, if the Soviets supply lines had not been disrupted, NATO would have had to resort to tactical, limited theatre nukes - in otherwords, battlefield nukes, so goodnight Germany.
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Jesus H!

Dr Strangelove is alive and well - and has several clones on this site.
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aindriu
We've been there before. The entire nuclear strategy of the Cold War was based on the M.A.D. theory i.e Mutually Assured Destruction. The same applies now. It is only by showing that you have nuclear weapons and are prepared to use them in a pre-emptive strike that you can keep a lid on them. Anyone remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? That is exactly what Kennedy threatened Kruschev with and the Soviets blinked first.

No, I think things have got a lot worse! - "First Strike" used to be eschewed, now its policy!
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aindriu
We've been there before. The entire nuclear strategy of the Cold War was based on the M.A.D. theory i.e Mutually Assured Destruction. The same applies now. It is only by showing that you have nuclear weapons and are prepared to use them in a pre-emptive strike that you can keep a lid on them. Anyone remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? That is exactly what Kennedy threatened Kruschev with and the Soviets blinked first.
And the world was moments from a nuclear winter. What if the russian were as stubborn as the yanks? Is it any kind of security to be MADder than the enemy?

What kind of logic is that?
You can't have nukes because you might use them, and in order to prevent you from getting them, we're going to nuke you.
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Old 22nd January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariella Froster
Jesus H!

Dr Strangelove is alive and well - and has several clones on this site.

How exactly does NATO policy change according to that story? They've always had a first strike policy.

The military men in the article seem more concerned about the future of NATO as a cohesive military alliance rather than inflicting armageddon.

According to this site

Nuclear Files

Quote:
Pakistan possesses about 30 nuclear capable surface-to-surface missiles provided by China. Pakistan has built and tested its own ballistic missiles including the Haft-3 (range 600 km) and the Ghauri (range 1500 km).
Should Jihadis take control of Pakistan they don't have the capability of launching a nuclear weapon at Europe or the US. They'd have to transport the weapon by other means. So the whole First Strike option would be unnecessary anyway.
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