Spiritofireland.org - suggests energy independence in five years and much more

fiannafailure · #**1161** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

I first came across the climate change debate around 1978, and the prediction at the time was that Ireland would be wetter and warmer, we seem to have once in a hundred years flooding every second year or so these days.
The interest in S of I from the west of Ireland has increased many fold over the last few days.

joel · #**1162** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiannafailure

And then of course the yanks came to study it, Ardnacrusha was in many ways the inspiration behind the Hoover Dam and a lot of the American response to the depression.

Really? - shows you what a little state with some social cohesion can do!

Pity its not more widely known in the world at large. Trumpets should be blown!

fiannafailure · #**1163** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christel

So you see no problems with bringing saltwater into an area up a mountain where there was no saltwater before? And building wind turbines around them?

You must be aware of problems all that can cause. Why not say so and tell of SOI's proposed mitigation plans?

I'm really looking forward to get to know of the sites envisaged for these reservoirs.

Just wondering: If with heavy rainfalls you would have to release water from the reservoirs: where would it go to? Straight into the sea, or would there be a danger that it causes flooding elsewhere?

Christel,
We are very confident that the cost benefit analysis of our project will be massively beneficial in environmental and economic terms.

Our reservoirs will be within 20 mins walking distance from the sea, where else will the water go if we must release it, down the canal and into the sea. But you see there will be active water management, so these emergencies will be extremely rare if they occur at all.

wombat · #**1164** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deiseguy

The SOI proposal has so many pluses to it and so little negatives it makes me weep that it is meeting so much resistance. .

Could not agree more

orbit · #**1165** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deiseguy

Gas is not in a complex market on its own. In '07 when oil was pushing towards record highs so were wheat and all other grain prices because of the amount of grain being diverted toward the energy market. And when oil sets new records over the next couple of years gas will follow right along behind along with any other energy source and any product requiring a lot of energy to produce, steel, cement etc. Also where are the billions needed to build an LNG terminal going to come from. I believe the one being built in Wales is costing £2 billion which in Irish money is probably €5 billion.

The Shannon LNG plant is only costing €400 million. And not much nimbyism either.

Quote:

Can you just imagine the nimby row about where that terminal was not going to be sited. SOI is not talking about a whole lot more money than this with the major difference that every penny earned by SOI stays in our column on the balance of payments.

The SOI proposal has so many pluses to it and so little negatives it makes me weep that it is meeting so much resistance.

I think scepticism is a better word than resistance. A lot of people just aren't prepared to make their minds up until they see more detail.

Heorditas · #**1166** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deiseguy

Gas is not in a complex market on its own. In '07 when oil was pushing towards record highs so were wheat and all other grain prices because of the amount of grain being diverted toward the energy market. And when oil sets new records over the next couple of years gas will follow right along behind along with any other energy source and any product requiring a lot of energy to produce, steel, cement etc. Also where are the billions needed to build an LNG terminal going to come from. I believe the one being built in Wales is costing £2 billion which in Irish money is probably €5 billion. Can you just imagine the nimby row about where that terminal was not going to be sited. SOI is not talking about a whole lot more money than this with the major difference that every penny earned by SOI stays in our column on the balance of payments.

What are you on about? Gas is a complex product and it can't be dealt with on its own due to the nature of the energy industry.
There have been times where the gas and oil markets have appeared to be linked and at other times those supposed links have been broken.

Currently the price for gas is dropping. But wait a second.... the price of oil has been on a strong upward trend for 2009 while gas has been on a downward trend all year.
Shurely shome mishtake...

The LNG terminal in Shannon is costing €400/500m. LNG is really going to help smooth out any massive fluctuations in gas prices if there is sufficient storage. It would act as a great buffer against the price hikes industry felt last year.

wombat · #**1167** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heorditas

The LNG terminal in Shannon is costing €400/500m. LNG is really going to help smooth out any massive fluctuations in gas prices if there is sufficient storage. It would act as a great buffer against the price hikes industry felt last year.

The cost of LNG is related to supply & demand. A tanker of LNG is no different to an oil tanker in that its destination can be changed while its at sea. The terminal at Shannon will help diversify supplies but its not going to reduce the cost of gas. Just as the price we pay for North sea gas is made up of well head cost + transport, so the cost of LNG will be made up of Wellhead + transport + processing.

Heorditas · #**1168** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by wombat

The cost of LNG is related to supply & demand. A tanker of LNG is no different to an oil tanker in that its destination can be changed while its at sea. The terminal at Shannon will help diversify supplies but its not going to reduce the cost of gas. Just as the price we pay for North sea gas is made up of well head cost + transport, so the cost of LNG will be made up of Wellhead + transport + processing.

You seem to think I don't know this.
Explain why gas has dropped in price this year.
People seem to be failing to grasp the fundamentals of the gas market. The simple fact that there is now a lot of LNG on the market has driven down the overall gas price.
Also, the US is not interested in LNG because they have their own sources, thus driving down the price further.
LNG was not readily available until this year because there were insufficient transporters shipping this stuff from Qatar. More of these super-gas-tankers are available now and as a result, the market is quite literally being flooded with gas.
Of course the market will experience contango, but for people to claim that it will experience this in line with the price of oil are very much mistaken.

wombat · #**1169** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heorditas

Explain why gas has dropped in price this year.
People seem to be failing to grasp the fundamentals of the gas market. The simple fact that there is now a lot of LNG on the market has driven down the overall gas price.
....
Of course the market will experience contango, but for people to claim that it will experience this in line with the price of oil are very much mistaken.

Supply & demand. The price of gas is linked to that of oil - oil being more valuable, easier to ship and more versatile. 20 years ago, gas was flared in the Gulf, now they can export it, the Algerians were building LNG plants in the 70's, the Australians literally can't build them fast enough to satisfy the China / Japan markets. The only point we actually disagree on is that I see a link between the price of gas and that of oil.

wombat · #**1170** (**permalink**) 22nd November 2009

We tend to wander off topic probably because we see energy supply as an important problem for the country and this is the main energy debate thread. SoI are proposing a way in which we can address the intermittant nature of wind power when we use it to generate electricity. We are too dependent on fossil fuels for generating electricity and the present policy of one off windmills does nothing to address that problem. We will still have a demand for oil & gas for the foreseeable future but we need to use the present recession to diversify so that we are not crippled when prices rise again.

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