By libertarians I am referring to those ultra-capitalist Ron Paul nutjobs as opposed to anarchists.

Anybody who knows anything about economics would know that a society based upon libertarian principles would self-destruct in about 3 seconds. These libertarians don't believe in the state ie they are against the state building roads, they are against public schools and hospitals, they believe the guards and army should be privatised, social welfare of all forms (ie dole, medical cards, disability allowance) should be abolished etc etc

Of course the reason these libertarians are opposed to the state is because they dislike paying taxes. It is essentially an ideology based on greed and rampant individualism. Nothing would ever be done in the interest of the public. For example a road would never be get built unless somebody could make a profit on it. Toll booths would appear every 100 metres. No buses or trains would run on non-profitable routes leaving huge amounts of people without transport. No postal service could exist in rural areas. People wouldn't be able to afford to go to the doctor, unemployed people would be made homeless, there would be no minimum wage so wages would drop to such a low level that unskilled workers couldn't survive without working 80 hours a week, some children would never get to go to school and god only knows what other horrors. There would probably be dead bodies lying in the streets. Why would anyone clear them? There's no profit in it.

There are some libertarians on here like 2000 miles and you just have to wonder about the sort of world he wants. It's a world so full of hate, selfishness and mutual distrust that nobody humane would want to live in it. You'd just want to commit suicide or something. For example 2000 miles wants to replace the police with private security firms. Whoever could afford the most private security would have the most "justice".

I really object to them calling themselves "libertarians". It implies they support freedom for the people. In reality they just want to create a ruthless form of wage slavery. Everyone would be forced to rent their body out to a capitalist in order to survive. Of course the libertarian will say it's a free contract but that a joke. It's not a free choice if your only options are prostitute your body to a capitalist or starve.

That is a completely misinformed view of Libertarianism.

Libertarians believe in as little state involvement as possible. Economically that would lead to almost pure capitalism and socially it would equate to extreme liberalism.

The most certainly do support freedom of the people and to say that "a society based upon libertarian principles would self-destruct in about 3 seconds" is pure idiotic. America's founding fathers were libertarians and that country has lasted a bit linger than three seconds...

Libertarianism > Socialism > Anarchism but still I am not much of a fan of Libertarianism. I feel that there should be a fair amount of state involvement but Libertarianism is far from the worst form of government espoused on this site. I actually like Ron Paul though I wouldn't agree with much of what he says, the Libertarian movement has however been damaged by leaders such as that nutjob Bob Barr who are just reject extreme Republicans.

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Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.67


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I take some libertarians seriously because I haven’t yet come across a decent philosophical rebuttal of someone like Nozick (I probably haven’t been looking hard enough).

I agree that it would seem to be an ideology centred around selfishness, and that the consequences could (would?) be disastrous for a lot of people. That said, it might be the case that people have a right to destroy themselves if they want to and that taxes are theft and that the ends cannot justify the means and so on. I doubt it, but I’ve yet to come across a good rebuttal.

I'd go along with most of it but I'm not sure about privatising the army and the Gardai. I must be a moderate. Certainly the state has no business running schools and hospitals. It's useless at running anything. The state does not build roads. It hires private firms to do it.

Social welfare has been a failure but facing up to that is not on the political agenda. The sheer unaffordibility of it will mean the system will collapse leaving people in the lurch rather than having it reformed into something more useful.

But I wouldn't worry too much M-M. People are about as likely to vote for libertarian government as an SP one.

They are a nutty lot alright but not everything they say is completely wacky.

I view Libertarians as liberal extremists. Much the same way that social democrats view Socialists as extremists and conservatives would view Theocracies as extremists.

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Freedom, Tolerance & Equality of Opportunity

Economic Left/Right: -1.25
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No need to feed the troll.

To respond vaguely, Ireland 11th century, America 19th centuary, hong kong ten years ago.

So the enormous growth of the United States in the 19th and 20th centuries had nothing to do with freedom?

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Obviously I can't speak from 2000miles or anyone else on this thing, but to characterise people who advocate individual freedom and voluntary exchange as "selfish" is bizarre. People can club together if they like, the freedom not to do so, or the freedom for every single person to choose what they do with their life is important.

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Libertarians: anarchists from the right.
They labour under the misapprehension that there is such a thing as the unregulated free market.
It's an interesting mental exercise, but to actually go and set up a political party means that they did not think it through properly.

What amuses me is that there is only one Libertarian party. So much for free competition.

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There's no reason why Libertarianism and capitalism need to be associated.

In theory, people who believe in minimal government should have no problem with other ownership systems like workers'or producers' cooperatives. In practice, I've never seen a non-capitalist libertarian, but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Libertarianism as it presents itself today does seem to be a case of enough rules to suit business, but not so many as to help citizens.

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Economic Left/Right: 0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36