Given that we are currently taking in taxes at about the rate we took them in back in 2002/3, should we not cut all spending back to the levels of 2002/3, and do it across the board in the interests of fairness.

Tax revenue may be €2bn lower than previous prediction
And if we could keep this one non-partisan so much the better

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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

Big problem the Irish public is up to its eyes in debt and have budgeted at 2007 levels.
There would be repos across the board.

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The trifling economy of paper, as a cheaper medium, or its convenience for transmission, weighs nothing in opposition to the advantages of the precious metals... it is liable to be abused, has been, is, and forever will be abused, in every country in which it is permitted." --Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813.

Nailed it in one there. Peoples backs are already against the wall.

But the repos would only effect the people who were reckless about the levels of debt they took on, the rest of society would be okay.

__________________
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

Not really, there are people in secure jobs both working feeling the pinch.They borrowed for ordinary mortgages in Dublin form 300,000- 400,000 when interest rates were low.When interest rates started to rise the pressure took hold,they now have lower interest rate again for the time been but this will not last and the pressure will be back on again ,its sad and a catch 22.We are not in a position to control our monetary policy this is left to the gang of thieves in the ECB.

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The trifling economy of paper, as a cheaper medium, or its convenience for transmission, weighs nothing in opposition to the advantages of the precious metals... it is liable to be abused, has been, is, and forever will be abused, in every country in which it is permitted." --Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813.

If you can manage to get prices down to 2002 levels, all will be well. Now, while that mightn't be practical or achievable in some things, it certainly can be in others e.g. ESB and Gas prices... should semi-states be making profits over and above what they need for ongoing investment, when homeowners and business people are being screwed to the wall ?

Tax revenues of 2003 to fund the public sector would be fine for the Private sector.

However, as benchmarking is a one way street here.....

But the prices were a factor of what people were prepared to pay, not of the cost of building. People chose to pay those prices.


But the point of this thread is to look at both sides of the coin at the same time.


Revenue coming in is back at 2002/3 levels. If we don't have the money coming in, how can we subsidise those people who made bad financial decisions?

__________________
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte

That would be a cut of €28bn. Even spread out over 5 years, is still a very tough ask.

But in my view, a worthy one. The structural nature of the defict needs to dealt with.

Once we have the absolutely necessary cuts (this and the last budgets' easy targets) Then there are the Bord Snip ones (waste, double spending ie blindingly obvious but requires cover)
There are 3 bigs one which will need to be faced and require a idealogical approach:
1) Targetted public sector cutting of the payroll (as opposed to embargoes, pay freezes but specific ones justifed by matters of strategy eg
a) replacing the TV licence with centreal funding ie save the 8% admin costs;
b) ditto reducing the number of planning authorites;
c) Abolishing car tax and replacing it with increases in diesel and petrol duty;
and on each occasion re-deploying the staff or making them redundant.
d) Targetting the lazy, dishonest, frequently absent, moonlighters, internet abusers - most organisiations would call this good management.
e) All new staff to get defined contribution pensions and no tenure (bar judges).

2) Health - HSE. Not the usual admin. cuts call but re-consider elective surgery for public patients, closing or selling hospitals, increasing contributions from users ie real cuts. Hardly likely (and in some cases undesireable).

3) Social welfare. This is a very fine line, because if you cut too deep it will cause real hardship and could push some over the line to criminality. But one would need to re-consider who gets social housing, the rental charges for them (€35 a week rent?), the length of time people can claim social welfare, workfare schemes, or replacing the lot with a basic income system and charity. Should social welfare exist for the administrators and ensure total dependence on the State.

This is all nasty right-wing stuff. But to get back to 2002 levels would be necessary.

Then the leftie stuff:
1) Taxing wealth.
2) A flat tax on property including primary residences.
3) Much higher tax on inheritance (or in reality, lower thresholds)
4) Sin taxes eg tanning salons, chocolate.
5) Pollution taxes.
6) Water and waste charges which reflect cost.
7) Real charges on second homes (€200 ffs)
8) Third level fees.
9) Extending CAB's remit.

I respectfully suggest - and I don't want the topic to go partisan - that this issue has been addressed to some extent recently, both in terms of price reductions, and in terms of grants to help people reduce consumption.

__________________
"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte