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Forgive all debts

This is a discussion on Forgive all debts within the Economy forums, part of the Topical Discussion category on Politics.ie. Originally Posted by SPN and the current scenario involves the taxpayer handing over real money to the Banking system to ...
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008
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Originally Posted by SPN View Post
and the current scenario involves the taxpayer handing over real money to the Banking system to pay off imaginary debts.
The debts are real, its the value of their assetts that's imaginary
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10th October 2008
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Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
doesnt this not benefit those that have the most debt.

So the guy who borrowed a small amount of cash to buy a small tv, not only suffers the indiginity of watching sports on a small tv but now has to face the guy down the road that borrowed alot more to buy the supersize plasma tv, the suv and the foreign holidays getting his debt written off.

I must go out and borrow over my head.
With the current plan the guy who borrowed nothing has to pay increased taxes to bail out the Bankers because the two guys with the televisions can't make their payments.

The guy with the small TV will pay the tax increase at the same rate as the guy with the big TV - and the money will go into the pockets of the Bankers.

Joe & Josephine mortgage-payer may have been gullible in borrowing €400k to buy a shoebox in deepest Westmeath. With the current plan they will have to pay off the €400k, and they will pay extra taxes to compensate the Bankers for the house next door which was foreclosed on when the neighbours lost their jobs and couldn't pay off the Bankers.

There are lots of permutations of how some fairness could be brought into Ctrl-Alt-Del approach, but saddling ordinary people with the burden of rewarding the Bankers is patently unfair.
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
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Old 10th October 2008
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Originally Posted by wombat View Post
The debts are real, its the value of their assetts that's imaginary
The debts are not real. They were conjured up by the Banking system from thin air.
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11th October 2008
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Originally Posted by SPN View Post
The debts are not real. They were conjured up by the Banking system from thin air.
Ok, lets play your game - the debts are all imaginary.

What about the people who dont have debts?
Why does some irresponsible knacker who bought an overpriced fck-hutch, a flashy car and a flat screen telly get away scot-free when those who saved their money end up getting shafted?
What you're saying is that people should have borrowed up to their eyeballs and not bothered paying it back. For that matter, why bother working; just get a loan and live off that?

Wake up.
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Old 11th October 2008
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Originally Posted by needle_too View Post
Ok, lets play your game - the debts are all imaginary.

What about the people who dont have debts?
Why does some irresponsible knacker who bought an overpriced fck-hutch, a flashy car and a flat screen telly get away scot-free when those who saved their money end up getting shafted?
What you're saying is that people should have borrowed up to their eyeballs and not bothered paying it back. For that matter, why bother working; just get a loan and live off that?

Wake up.
.

Hear hear! Ignore the commies.

Fresh start?

Penalise the prudent?

Make the spendthrifts pay!

Make 'em pay, if only to teach 'em a lesson. (Trouble is they're probably too thick to learn!)



.
Last edited by katy brock; 11th October 2008 at 01:29 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11th October 2008
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Originally Posted by SPN View Post
The debts are not real. They were conjured up by the Banking system from thin air.
Try explaining that one to a pensioner who wants to withdraw some of the money they lent the bank.
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Old 11th October 2008
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Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
doesnt this not benefit those that have the most debt.

So the guy who borrowed a small amount of cash to buy a small tv, not only suffers the indiginity of watching sports on a small tv but now has to face the guy down the road that borrowed alot more to buy the supersize plasma tv, the suv and the foreign holidays getting his debt written off.

I must go out and borrow over my head.

I don't dispute you point, but your example is badly chosen. When did you last hear of some-one borrowing money to buy a small TV?

A small house perhaps.
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Old 11th October 2008
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I have a better idea. If we are pressing Control Alt and delete on the economy why not just abolish the current money system, replace it with a new one which would have as a start value 100=barrel of oil with all property in the custody of its custodians would be valued in expressions of the value of it relative to a barrel of oil. Fecklessness by damned I say.

In fact let's go farther.

Let's reduce everyone to 1, bring us all out to the country to work in the fields and pretend the last 10,000 years didn't happen.

Now that's pulling the plug on the economy and starting again. Wonder if it was ever tried anywhere...
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Old 11th October 2008
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Originally Posted by rhonda15 View Post
An intriguing idea I came across on another forum:

Forgive all debts

What do you guys think if they were just to forgive everyone's debts. No mortgage, no car payment, and no credit cards to pay for. I think that could really help our economy. Think about all the cars that people could go out and buy, therefore helping our infrastructure. People that need work done on their house could now afford to do so.

There have been many cultures in the past that have done this. What do you guys think about this. Crticisim is welcome. What are the problems with doing this? What are some of the advantages?

Even the bible has an opinion on this
The forgiving of 'debts', public and private was commanded in the Bible. It is called the Fifty Year Jubilee. For His documention, you will locate it in Leviticus 25 vrs 10-17. But hey, since when has mankind done anything God's way?
I've read some rubbish here over the last year, but this is really special..
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11th October 2008
SPN SPN is offline
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Originally Posted by needle_too View Post
Ok, lets play your game - the debts are all imaginary.

What about the people who dont have debts?
Why does some irresponsible knacker who bought an overpriced fck-hutch, a flashy car and a flat screen telly get away scot-free when those who saved their money end up getting shafted?
What you're saying is that people should have borrowed up to their eyeballs and not bothered paying it back. For that matter, why bother working; just get a loan and live off that?

Wake up.
I think maybe YOU should wake up!

The current plan is for the Taxpayer to undertake to pay off these debts. The Bankers get their money, and the taxpayer gets the bill.

I'm proposing we find a way to tell the Bankers to go f**k themselves, stick their imaginary debts where the sun don't shine, and we use future tax revenue to pay for Health, Education, Water, Sewage, Fire Brigades, etc.

This is not about how we got here, this is about how we get out of it.

We, as taxpayers, are going to have to pay the bill. Should we pay off the Bankers, or should we invest in our Communities?

The choice is simple!
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"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest." Mark Twain

“When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” Napoléon Bonaparte
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