The events and time of reflection surrounding the death of John Paul the Great now beg the question: have we in our transformation into a secularist individualist rights based society thrown the baby out with the bath water?

Amongst all the 'bad' things that we have lost, have we also lost not just our innocence, but a sense of community, a sense of duty, a sense of proportion? McGurk [sp?] in the BP on Sunday asked an interesting question: why were all the young people so clearly affected by JP's death, often reduced to tears?

Sorry, didn't see the article - reduced to tears over what? Pope's death or moral loss?

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No.

I suppose that's the point. No one has fully digested what last week's outpouring of emotion really means.

[quote="LordJagged"]
Amongst all the 'bad' things that we have lost, have we also lost not just our innocence, but a sense of community, a sense of duty, a sense of proportion? [quote]

Was this the same 'sense of community and proportion' that facilitated the cover-up of various mideeds by religious and lay child abusers in state run institutions during the 1930-1970s?

I seek merely information.

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You can see the point that certain benefits of the previous age have been lost . Personally I think we're better off for the most part, but things like really really low murder rates are attractive.

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Can't help thinking that this is somewhat similar to people grieving over Princess Diana. I'm wondering what is it, in modern societies, that makes people want to grieve - seemingly often over people they had little time for when they were alive.

You know what? I just can't understand the mentality that allowed that to happen either. You know what else? The same rustic, boorish and provincial gombeenism that allowed that is still alive and well, but with even fewer checks on it than before.

Sure, the average Irishman needed to emerge from the control of the church. But check the title of the thread: at what cost?

Can't say I like him, but Conor Cruise O'Brien made a good point when he opened a critical article of JPII by saying he had postponed the article as so many people who didn't even like the pope were upset.

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Perhaps, but I think last weeks events went far deeper than the death of the enema junkie.