Politics.ie
Advertise on Politics.ie

Go Back   Politics.ie > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Hey there!

It looks like you're enjoying Politics.ie but haven't created an account yet. Why not take a minute to register for your own free account now? As a member you get free access to all of our forums and posts plus the ability to post your own messages, communicate directly with other members and much more. Joining Politics.ie is completely free. Register now!

Already a member? Login at the top of this page to stop seeing this message.

The prevailing liberal orthodoxy on mass immigration- its all wrong

This is a discussion on The prevailing liberal orthodoxy on mass immigration- its all wrong within the Current Affairs forums, part of the General Discussion category on Politics.ie. Good article from the brit Guardian delving into the latest book by Christopher Caldwell titled Reflections on the Revolution in ...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,865
Blog Entries: 76
Thumbs up The prevailing liberal orthodoxy on mass immigration- its all wrong

Good article from the brit Guardian delving into the latest book by Christopher Caldwell titled Reflections on the Revolution in Europe.

Quote:
Caldwell cuts to shreds the conventional wisdom of the "immigrationist" ideology - the view that mass immigration is inevitable and in any case a necessary injection of youth into our ageing continent. He shows, contrary to the immigrationists, that the flows of recent decades are unprecedented. He also demolishes the economic and welfare- state arguments for mass immigration and points out that in most countries there was no desperate need for extra workers in the 1950s - in Britain's case, Ireland still provided a reserve army of labour. One of the most startling figures in the book is that the number of foreign residents in Germany rose from 3 million to 7.5 million between 1971 and 2000 but the number of employed foreigners stayed the same at 2 million.

Caldwell is at his best describing the confused cultural and intellectual condition of much of Europe at the time the first waves of immigrants were arriving. It was hard, he points out, to follow Europe's rules and embrace its values when Europeans themselves were rewriting those rules and reassessing those values. After the brutal experiences of the first part of the 20th century - two world wars, the Holocaust and de-colonisation - European elites had embraced a liberal universalism that declared the moral equality of all people and implicitly questioned the legitimacy of most racial and gender hierarchies.Liberal universalism could, in theory, have been compatible with confident nation states and national identities, but in practice it seldom was. The idea of national traditions and solidarities came to be scorned by liberals in many European countries.

Caldwell reverses the conventional argument, which says that if immigration has been a relative failure it is because the host society has been too hostile and unaccommodating. On the contrary, he argues, it is because most of the host societies were too weak and insecure to make newcomers an offer that was sufficiently confident to secure their loyalty and integration. Most European countries, constrained by liberal universalism and the immigrationism ideology, were simply too laissez-faire towards migrants. For the first time in modern history, European societies were set up to allow a big group of citizens to lead their lives as if in a foreign culture..
And so on. Hopefully policy makers wondering how to drag Ireland and the EU out of the immigration nightmare they placed it in will consider taking a look at this book. A fair few on this board might consider looking at it too- you know who you are
__________________
Mass Immigration - Not in my name
Liberal elites across the EU have taken Bertoldt Brechts advice and declared that the people have forfeited the confidence of the government, therefore the liberal elites have decided to dissolve the people and import another.

Reply With Quote

Advertise on Politics.ie

  #2 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
Muskerry Sportsman
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Interesting. Where can we get the book?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nationalist Ireland
Posts: 30,870
Default

Caldwell is right. The elites want to impose a template that hasn't worked in the UK, France, the Netherlands etc. Their own intolerance of debate on this issue proves that whatever they may say, they are not liberals in the true sense of the word, which is why the term Left-Liberals is better to describe most of them. I think Enda Kenny's speech in 2007 on how immigrants with serious criminal-records should not be allowed into Ireland, and that foreign-national criminals should be deported after serving their sentences, was a positive contribution to the debate on the issue. 29,000 PPS nos have already been issued to foreign-nationals in 2009, despite the claims of them emigrating. We need a debate on these issues without hysteria and in a calm manner on both sides of the argument. In a democracy, the people must have the right to discuss whether they agree or not with open-door immigration policies. It isn't fascism to express such conncerns, so cut the PC-bull claiming otherwise.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dún na nGall
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach View Post
Caldwell is right. The elites want to impose a template that hasn't worked in the UK, France, the Netherlands etc. Their own intolerance of debate on this issue proves that whatever they may say, they are not liberals in the true sense of the word, which is why the term Left-Liberals is better to describe most of them. I think Enda Kenny's speech in 2007 on how immigrants with serious criminal-records should not be allowed into Ireland, and that foreign-national criminals should be deported after serving their sentences, was a positive contribution to the debate on the issue. 29,000 PPS nos have already been issued to foreign-nationals in 2009, despite the claims of them emigrating. We need a debate on these issues without hysteria and in a calm manner on both sides of the argument. In a democracy, the people must have the right to discuss whether they agree or not with open-door immigration policies. It isn't fascism to express such conncerns, so cut the PC-bull claiming otherwise.
I have never heard of "left liberals" but I have heard Neo-Liberal. Being liberal is always left.
__________________
"I don't know whether the world is run by smart men who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain

Remember the Drumboe Martyrs -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 857
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulster-Lad View Post
I have never heard of "left liberals" but I have heard Neo-Liberal. Being liberal is always left.
No it's not.

You can be liberal on social issues and right of centre on economic issues.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
OMahonyMunster's Avatar
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,304
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Cuts both ways as we have seen Libertas want to deny Irish people the right to work abroad, is that what you people want/ all the Irish diaspora to be returned here, forcibly?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
Chrisco's Avatar
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North, South, East, and West.
Posts: 2,190
Default

A nice selective quotation at the start there, omitting

Quote:
Even if you disagree with his premises, Caldwell is worth persevering with because he is a bracing, clear-eyed analyst of European pieties. And that is partly because, as an American, he knows that mass immigration is not only compatible with a strong, confident, patriotic society, but may even require it. He can see Europe from the outside and has a genuinely pan-European view of the immigration issue, something rarely encountered in domestic commentary.
Review: Reflections on the Revolution in Europe by Christopher Caldwell | Books | The Observer
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nationalist Ireland
Posts: 30,870
Default

This thread is about the multiculturalist consensus among the elites - stop dragging every thread back to Libertas OMM.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 18th May 2009
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,865
Blog Entries: 76
Default

Neg rep from the mass immigration profiteer and liar for Nice marmurr1916- good sign
__________________
Mass Immigration - Not in my name
Liberal elites across the EU have taken Bertoldt Brechts advice and declared that the people have forfeited the confidence of the government, therefore the liberal elites have decided to dissolve the people and import another.

Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 4th August 2009
Politics.ie Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,642
Default

Another piece of incompetence on RTE on Mass Immigration and its effects.

This morning the dope sitting in for Pat Kenny on radio spent up to half an hour doing a piece on teaching English to foreigners.

In the entire 30 minutes or so, he never asked the question that a competent journalist should ask of any government program.

How much does it cost?

Well, Mr RTE Sloppy, I'll tell you.

It costs hundreds of millions.

And I'll tell you more.

Irish workers pay for it.

We're being phuccing crucified with taxes and levies, yet we spend hundreds of millions on teaching the world.

Truly Fianna Fail is the Mad Immigration party.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
culture wars, immigration
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mass Immigration and a United Ireland Lidl_Shopper Sinn Féin 31 16th September 2008 05:25 PM
BBC report on Mass Immigration to Ireland rkeane Current Affairs 223 5th February 2008 04:47 PM
Mass immigration cuterhoor Elections 11 15th May 2007 09:47 AM
Mass immigration cuterhoor Elections 50 7th May 2007 06:12 PM
Yet another problem arising from Mass Immigration georgedillon Current Affairs 27 26th March 2006 10:22 PM


Advertise on Politics.ie

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:27 AM.