Making Ireland British: is the project nearing completion?

[diy01]

"...it was always easy to regard ease of movement between the Irish Republic and the UK as evidence of a privileged, or special, relationship. And it was, without doubt, a convenience to regular travellers. The more you think about it, though, the more it also smacks of Britain's reluctance to recognise Ireland as a foreign country and the Irish as a separate nation.

The same applies to the right of Irish citizens, resident in the UK, to vote in British elections. Not just in local elections – which is permitted throughout the European Union – but in general elections. This is something else that speaks of Britain's refusal to let go."

- Mary Dejevsky, The Independent

Are we witnessing the final stages in a process which began circa five hundred years ago?

By 'making Ireland British' I mean reaching a point where the differences between the two States are largely cosmetic. Are Irish people finishing what the English [later British] regime started?

Consider the following:

- A common language. Many similarities in terms of slang and turns of phrase.

- The popularity in Ireland of:

*British TV channels,
*British soccer clubs,
*newspapers (both those of Britain proper as well as the 'Irish editions' of UK papers)

- Irish citizens resident in Britain can vote in elections
- Common Travel Area, provisions that go above and beyond those from other EU countries, Irish citizens never regarded as foreigners under the law
- Familial ties, emigration
- Cultural touchstones common to both countries
- partition
- similar legal systems based on common law, largely inherited after 1921
- continued decline of the Irish language. Native speakers now comprise approx. 1% of the population in the ROI (c. 50,000 out of 4,200,000 of population 3 and up = 1.2%). Habitual speakers = 2-3% of population
- loss and dilution of regional accents, creeping americanisation and britisation

Some may point to the actual loosening of ties since 1922 (1937 Constitution, Republic of Ireland Act, 1948, republic/parliamentary democracy vs. constitutional monarchy etc.). I'm mindful of that, of course. However, it's arguable that Ireland, a sovereign, independent State, is closer to Britain culturally, linguistically, ethnically and socially now than ever before.

Firstly, do you agree with this assertion?

Are these similarities the result of Irish people carrying on the process that was started by the British (whether consciously or subconsciously), or are they more a result of the evermore connected world we live in. With rampant American and EU influence and all that goes with it. Is it merely a sign of the times?

And is it necessarily a bad thing?

[seabhcan]

Is this a post from the past?

None of this is new.

[Iarmhi Gael]

You obviously have not been to Britain recently... We are more British then the British at this point

[goosebump]

Originally Posted by diy01

Firstly, do you agree with this assertion?

No. Irish residents are not allowed vote in X-Factor.

[FutureTaoiseach]

We are not British. We have different attitudes from them on issues like having a written constitution, neutrality/NATO, Proportional-Representation, the euro, abortion etc. and have a different national history. However I do think that revival of the Irish language is essential to preserving Irish culture and identity - but it's not an absolute prerequisite for it.

[seabhcan]

Originally Posted by diy01

- A common language. Many similarities in terms of slang and turns of phrase.

- The popularity in Ireland of:

*British TV channels,
*British soccer clubs,
*newspapers (both those of Britain proper as well as the 'Irish editions' of UK papers)

- Irish citizens resident in Britain can vote in elections
- Common Travel Area, provisions that go above and beyond those from other EU countries, Irish citizens never regarded as foreigners under the law
- Familial ties, emigration
- Cultural touchstones common to both countries
- partition
- similar legal systems based on common law, largely inherited after 1921

Germany and Austria, and France and Belgium each share languages. But they are still different countries.

All mainland EU states share a common legal system - the napoleonic code.

28 countries in Europe have a "common travel area" - you don't need to show a passport once when travelling from the russian border to the Atlantic ocean.

You'll find that national identity is a deeper issue than these things.

[DaBrow]

Originally Posted by diy01

Are we witnessing the final stages in a process which began circa five hundred years ago?

By 'making Ireland British' I mean reaching a point where the differences between the two States are largely cosmetic. Are Irish people finishing what the English [later British] regime started?

Consider the following:

- A common language. Many similarities in terms of slang and turns of phrase.

- The popularity in Ireland of:

*British TV channels,
*British soccer clubs,
*newspapers (both those of Britain proper as well as the 'Irish editions' of UK papers)

- Irish citizens resident in Britain can vote in elections
- Common Travel Area, provisions that go above and beyond those from other EU countries, Irish citizens never regarded as foreigners under the law
- Familial ties, emigration
- Cultural touchstones common to both countries
- partition
- similar legal systems based on common law, largely inherited after 1921
- continued decline of the Irish language. Native speakers now comprise approx. 1% of the population in the ROI (c. 50,000 out of 4,200,000 of population 3 and up = 1.2%). Habitual speakers = 2-3% of population
- loss and dilution of regional accents, creeping americanisation and britisation

Some may point to the actual loosening of ties since 1922 (1937 Constitution, Republic of Ireland Act, 1948, republic/parliamentary democracy vs. constitutional monarchy etc.). I'm mindful of that, of course. However, it's arguable that Ireland, a sovereign, independent State, is closer to Britain culturally, linguistically, ethnically and socially now than ever before.

Firstly, do you agree with this assertion?

Are these similarities the result of Irish people carrying on the process that was started by the British (whether consciously or subconsciously), or are they more a result of the evermore connected world we live in. With rampant American and EU influence and all that goes with it. Is it merely a sign of the times?

And is it necessarily a bad thing?

Ireland has a higher number of Irish Speakers than the Native % stated

Ireland has been a pushover but Irish people are not push-overs................................

Given the current climate, I see ourselves wanting to be more on our own and have our own influence.

I hate Coronation Street and Eastenders
I don't support British Football: Juventus is my team of choice
Our culture is completely separate: We know more about our own history and britains history than they know themselves................... People in the UK don't even know where Dublin is in Ireland..................... that shows how ignorant they are!

We won't ever really be like them thank god

[diy01]

We are not British.

Agreed. Of course not.

Looking long-term, what aspects of Irish 'culture' are most likely to sustain that distinctiveness? Or has the game changed completely?

I suppose what I'm trying to get at is...are these similarities due more to the special relationship between Ireland and Britain historically, or more the result of EU homogenisation? In other words, things which every country goes through in its relationship with its larger, more influential neighbour(s). Whether it's New Zealand with Australia, Canada and the USA, Ukraine and Russia etc...

[seabhcan]

Originally Posted by DaBrow

We know more about our own history and britains history than they know themselves................... People in the UK don't even know where Dublin is in Ireland..................... that shows how ignorant they are!

Sadly this is true - but is a result of the UK's disasterous education system, not culture.

[diy01]

Originally Posted by seabhcan

Germany and Austria, and France and Belgium each share languages. But they are still different countries.

Certainly. But the voting rights of Irish citizens resident in the UK is notable.

What is Irish national identity primarily based on, in your opinion?

Our culture is completely separate

Completely separate? Impossible. Irish culture influences Britain to some extent. It goes both ways. As with all neighbours.