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Originally Posted by Pastradamus  Socialism and statist beliefs are one in the same. By definition:Government having a major role in the the direction of the economy, both through state-owned enterprises and indirectly through the central planning of overall economy. But when one hears the word statism it reminds us of Nazi Germans so you are making a connotation of the facist definition of Statism which is:
"basic concept that sovereignty is vested not in the people but in the national state, and that all individuals and associations exist only to enhance the power, the prestige, and the well-being of the state. The fascist concept of statism repudiates individualsm and exalts the nation as an organic body headed by the Supreme Leader and nurtured by unity, force, and discipline."
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Fascism in Germany was only a heartbeat away from socialism in Russia. Socialism repudiates individualism in that there is no private property and that individuals are compelled to the will of the state by force, in Nazi Germany the state set wages, prices, controlled factory production, factory ownership was in name only.
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Working class people dont work to have their productive wealth to be taken from them. Thats not socialism. Thats the basis for its existance. Thats what makes socialists.
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Oh so the capitalists become the slaves of working class people having their productive wealth seized. Or are you implying that there will be no government, as the existence of government requires the appropriation of wealth to support it's existence.
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The seizure of workers capital existed for centuries
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It did, and it continued in every socialist state that ever came and went from existence, otherwise how would the state have survived unless in used wealth created by workers.
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Democracy is a greek word meaning "Mob" or "people" rule. If im not mistaken, the vast majority of people in high positions in the Dail did not come for a working class background and instead are former Solicitors, Barristers, Businessmen and professionals. Puritan Socialist beliefs of a workers democracy are Working class seizure and control of the means of production. [\QUOTE]
Which means the vast majority of people vote for them, these positions are not simply seized (unlike a workers revolution) they are filled by elected representatives.
What you advocate is a minority seizing power by force, and thus becomes a totalitarian regime; for if this group were the majority they would already be in power, such is the nature of our democracy & democracy in general.
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You have to read up on writings of Socialism, Dialectial Materialism, Marx, Engles, The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital vol 1,2,3 to understand the various concepts involved in its ideals. Stop reading anti-socialist rabblings because you cannot grasp the idea and analyse something critically if your getting your information from propaganda.
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Did you know that Marx never worked a day in his life, and allowed his wife and children to live & die in abject squalor and poverty?
I used to be a card carrying communist, like my father and read all the literature; until I came to the conclusion that the only way socialism could be brought to Ireland would be by means of an armed revolution. That people here needed to be forced to do what was good for them, and it was then that I realised what socialism was.
It wasn't until after I was married that I became anti-socialist. My wifes family (grandparents, mother, father, aunt & uncles)lived through the communist takeover and cultural revolution in China.
They were not an wealthy family but were not poor. Everything, EVERYTHING was taken from them. Their home, their savings, family heirlooms, their meager possessions all taken. They were beaten, starved, imprisoned, sent to labour camps for re-education. It was a sheer miracle none of them died.
No I learned my distaste for socialism from history books, not anti-socialist texts.
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You seriously cannot attack the claim of "capital is accumulated theft from workers over generations of capitalism" . . . Because it has been proven true. Look at the huge buildings and boulevards in Spain, England and Italy accumulated from colonialism and exploiting foreign and slave workers.
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A worker (lets say in McDonnalds, minimum wage) saves their money from their work( 5 years). They then use this money, this savings, otherwise known as financial capital is used to rent a building, equipment and hire staff for lets say his own fast food joint. This worker has just created their own capital (stole from none), and the result is a wealth creating venture which can allow more workers to accumulate their own capital should they wish.
So I say proven true by whom and how, I would love to know how this person might refute reality in such a manner. I mean look at the huge buildings in Dublin, the Custom House, GPO etc. wasn't built with foreign slave labour. And the last time I checked slavery has been outlawed since some time in the 1800's, so what are you getting at?
But when the "workers" seize this restaurant in their glorious revolution who is stealing?